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Success Story Podcast

Naveen Jain – Founder & CEO of Viome | How to Dream Bigger

By September 23, 2022January 18th, 2023No Comments

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About The Guest

Naveen Jain is the founder and CEO of Viome. An intensely curious entrepreneur and philanthropist, Naveen Jain focuses on ideas that push humanity forward.

Driven to solve the world’s biggest problems and propelled by his imagination, Naveen pushes big dreams into action, spurring massive cultural and technological change. With an audacious vision, he knows no limits. His moonshot vision breaks through barriers; his magnetic personality inspires the impossible.

He is the author of the award-winning book, Moonshots: Creating a World of Abundance, the creator of Mindvalley, Masterclass programs, and behind XPrize a global future positive movement, and on the board of Singularity University.

Talking Points

  • 00:00 — Intro
  • 03:42 — Naveen Jain’s origin story
  • 11:15 — How should an entrepreneur tackle a problem?
  • 27:43 — The “Why you?” formula
  • 28:39 — Building a niche business as opposed to a business that already has a huge market
  • 35:45 — What is moonshot and what is its purpose?
  • 40:04 — What is the scientific reasoning for aging?
  • 43:58 — How much does aging impact a person’s work?
  • 47:25 — What is Moon Express?
  • 50:55 — Where can people connect with Naveen Jain?
  • 51:32 — The biggest challenge Naveen Jain has ever faced in his life
  • 52:23 — The most impactful person in Naveen Jain’s life
  • 53:08 — What would Naveen Jain tell his 20-year-old self?
  • 53:44 — What does success mean to Naveen Jain?

Show Links

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What is the Success Story Podcast?

On this podcast, you’ll find interviews, Q&A, keynote presentations & conversations on sales, marketing, business, startups, and entrepreneurship.

The podcast is hosted by entrepreneur, business executive, author, educator & speaker, Scott D. Clary.

Scott will discuss some of the lessons he’s learned over his own career, as well as have candid interviews with execs, celebrities, notable figures, and politicians. All who have achieved success through both wins and losses, to learn more about their life, their ideas, and insights.

He sits down with leaders and mentors and unpacks their stories to help pass those lessons on to others through both experiences and tactical strategies for business professionals, entrepreneurs, and everyone in between.


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Machine Generated Transcript


people, technology, business, aging, problem, question, moon, cancer, nord, microbiome, entrepreneur, literally, develop, organism, moonshot, happening, inflammation, life, solve, find


Scott D Clary, Naveen Jain


Scott D Clary  00:01

What do the federal funds rates and the price of a barrel of oil have to do with you being able to buy a house this year? How do you suppose corporate earnings reports affect your next vacation? Join marketplace host Kai Rizal as he untangles economic news and gives you context you can actually use because the more you know about the financial world, the better you can plan for what’s happening in your own world. Listen to marketplace wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to success story, the most useful podcast in the world. I’m your host Scott D. Clary. This success story podcast is part of the blue wire podcast network as well as the HubSpot Podcast Network which has other great podcasts like socialite hosted by Steph Taylor socialite discusses all things online marketing, Steph Taylor answers all your business marketing questions. She deep dives into the nitty gritty of online marketing, content marketing, social media marketing marketing strategy for business owners. If any of these topics resonate with you, you’re gonna love the show, you’ll learn things like how to scale your brand on various different social media platforms, some of the biggest mistakes you can make with your launch of a new product or service, the importance of nurturing and engaging your audience consistently. The importance of having your audience fully understand the problem you’re trying to solve and why it’s important to solve right now, as well as why growing audiences across all social platforms feels so hard. In 2022. You can go listen to socialite wherever you get your podcast, or at the HubSpot Podcast Network at network. today. My guest is Naveen Jain. He is the CEO of VIOME and Moon Express. He is also the author of moonshots creating a world of abundance of best selling book he sees beyond the current technological landscape he creates businesses that are innovating disrupting is an understatement. He is the founder of via Moon Express. He’s also the founder of world Innovation Institute and talent wise, intelligence and infospace. He is an intensely curious entrepreneur. He’s focused on audacious ideas that push humanity forward. Like I mentioned, he is the author of the award winning book moonshots. He’s the creator of Mind Valley masterclass programs, he’s behind XPRIZE, a global future positive movement, and he’s also on the board of Singularity University. He is a career entrepreneur, he’s had multiple successes over his career, he knows no limits. He is propelled by his imagination. And as an entrepreneur, his goal is to change in a positive way as many lives as humanly possible. He pushes big dreams into action. He spurs massive cultural and technological change. His vision and personalities inspire millions globally. We spoke about some of his past experience as an entrepreneur some of the things that he’s done, but mostly we spoke about taking moonshots how to build an incredible company take a risk, his framework, his entrepreneurial framework that he uses to think of business ideas that can truly change humanity. He focuses on asking different questions, learning things in a different way, hiring the right people. And it may seem simple, but listen to his story. And listen what he’s doing with his two current active companies Moon Express, and VIOME. Moon Express is focused on bringing humans to different galaxies. VIOME is focused on improving the lives and biome is a very active product that you can purchase right now it’s improving the lives because he looked at health and wellness differently. And his goal with VIOME will be to cure diseases at some point that are incurable. So he’s he’s really pushing the envelope when it comes to entrepreneurship and technology and innovation. So let’s jump right into it. This is Naveen Jain. He is best selling author and founder of VIOME and Moon Express.


Naveen Jain  04:11

But you know, every origin story that you hear is generally a rewrite of the real origin stories. It’s certainly what happens. In our case, you know, we started about six and a half years ago. And as I was finishing up a project around going to the moon, and you always wonder that you know, once you’ve done the moonshot, once you’ve done that moonshot, what do you do for an anchor? Right? You do another moonshot. But this time let’s do it symbolic moonshot that could actually fundamentally change the trajectory of how humanity is going to live on planet Earth. And if you could find a way to do anything that improves the life of billions of people, you will find a you can create a massive enterprise out of it right. And that’s the fundamentally every entrepreneurs should know The basic rules of the business are really simple. It doesn’t matter what industry you are in, the first question you ask yourself is, am I building a service or a product that improves people’s life? And the second question you ask is how many people’s lives that means, God forbid, you’re actually successful in doing exactly what you set out to do? Would it help a billion people live a better life? And the answer is no. The reason is, it’s not because you’re Flint therapist, and you think, hey, I want to really focus on helping a billion people, you’re simply saying, If any company that can help billion people live better, whatever in the way, the better is, you can create a $500 billion company, but you don’t go wake up in the morning and say, hey, I want to create a $500 billion company, what should I do? That’s not how the world works. So you stay focused on making your customers life better, and everything else would fall in place. And you know, as we go along, and I’ll tell you more about a framework that I have used in every company. That is the fundamental framework that once you understand the power of that framework, you will always find that you can do anything you want, right? So anytime I start a company, I asked myself three questions. Why this? Why now? Why me? And why this, I think is described, the first thing you ask yourself is whatever this is, if it is successful, would it actually change people’s life? Would it improve people’s life? Would it improve billions of people’s lives? Right? That tells you you have a massive market in front of you. Then you ask, why now and why now is the reason is, number one predictor of your success in in your industry? is not how talented you are, how great a product you have none of that. It’s timing, that timing is the number one predictor of your success. I mean, you look at Facebook, it wasn’t the first social network, right? The timing was perfect, right. So in fact, if you look at before so you know, obviously before Facebook, most people may not realize there used to be thing called MySpace, before MySpace, people did not know that used to be called Friendster, right? It just timing wasn’t there, the internet penetration was there wasn’t there, the mobile phones weren’t there. And that literally the time you want just off, you look at you know, any type of thing CD before CD, there were 10s of people who had voice recognition, the timing wasn’t there, the technology wasn’t quite up there. And I think the bandwidth wasn’t there for you to be able to use the right. So time is good. So how do you how do you perfect your timing is really simple. You ask yourself and say, what had changed in the last one to two years? But more importantly, what do you expect to happen in the next three to five years that will allow you to scale your technology at a cheaper, affordable place, and more, more people can access it in three to five years using the technologies of tomorrow, not technology as of yesterday. That means if this problem could have been solved half a decade ago, using your technology, then you’re barking up the wrong tree? That means are you actually intercepting the technologies as they’re coming up. So you actually hit the knee of the cursor, and the technology is taking off? You’re actually going with data. And I can explain,


Scott D Clary  08:20

You just jumped into it. You just like out the gate at the gate. Okay, that’s fine. Let’s let’s do it. This is this is good. Sorry, I didn’t interrupt I just keep going. This is like good framework, very great frame.


Naveen Jain  08:32

Spark is the most important part. And I think every entrepreneur, this is where they go wrong, which is why me and why me has two components to it. The first component is what questions are you asking that are different from what everyone else in the industry is asking? Because the questions you ask is the problem you solve. And let me give you two examples from to complete different industry. So you can see the framework has nothing to do with an industry. So if you look at the thing, I was in the aerospace industry, looking into saying, can we really create a multiplanetary society living on the Moon, Mars and beyond? And people first of all said, that’s not going to happen. That’s impossible. But let’s set that aside. Even the believers of the things will say, Oh, awesome. When you go to the moon, how are you going to grow the food on the moon? And that’s it. Generally, they believe it’s the right question to ask. But imagine when you ask that question, the only solution to that question is to find a way to grow the food. What if you were to ask a slightly different question that says, Why do we eat food? Just by asking why do we eat food, you suddenly realize the only reason we eat food is for two things for energy and for nutrition. And then you ask yourself energy, what plants get energy through photosynthesis? Can we actually do get the energy through photosynthesis? And by the way, there are bacteria that are growing in the radio active loop Your waste. And what does that mean? That these, we, as organisms have already found a way to protect their DNA against the radiation and use the radiation as a source of energy. Now imagine if we can take a genetic material from these bacteria, modify our genes using CRISPR. And suddenly we are bacteria resistant, and we can get energy from the bacteria energy from the radiation. That means now you can go out in the evening and say, Honey, do you want to go go out for a walk and get some radiation rather than honey? Do you want to go out for a pizza? And that’s really the trick is simply asking a different question allows you to solve the problem in many different ways than ever possible. And simply by asking that right now, as we go along, I will apply this framework to my latest company while but I’m going to stop right here and let you deal with that.


Scott D Clary  10:53

I just want to take a second to thank the sponsor of today’s episode HubSpot. Now, running your own business means uncertainty is everywhere. So wouldn’t it be nice to have a CRM platform that just works a CRM platform that helps you provide a seamless, connected best in class customer experience. For too long, businesses have had to deal with managing point solutions that slow down their teams, frustrate customers and hit them with hidden fees, hub spots, all in one CRM platform has everything you need to do business, no hidden fees included. With a connected platform that’s easy to implement and use. Your teams have all the tools and data they need to spend more time on what matters most creating remarkable customer experiences. Learn how HubSpot can help your business grow, I feel I truly feel that I feel like you could just talk about everything you’re passionate about for the next next five hours if you wanted to. But I appreciate the framework, I guess, I want to understand how you applied it to what you’re working on right now. But when you ask questions like that, when you ask questions that change the lens that we look at a problem through. That’s a scary concept for an entrepreneur. And what I mean by that is when you’re saying something to the point of well, we can go through, we can potentially change the way that we actually have to consume food that for most people is not a problem that can be solved in a lifetime. So when you tackle a problem, you aren’t looking to solve a problem in the next 10 years, you’re looking to solve something that is truly moonshot. Now, is that something in different contexts, an entrepreneur should still think about something that can last outlast their lifetime.


Naveen Jain  12:41

Remember, just because you have a moonshot doesn’t mean that you don’t have the steps along the way that you actually have business at. All right. So the interesting thing about moonshots is, you have a Northstar, you have your pointing direction where you want to go. And then you see what are the steps that needs to be done along the way for this to happen. And everything you go along the way actually creates a business. So it’s not like a moonshot is a binary thing. Either you are in or you’re out there long, the moonshot, you develop tremendous amount of technologies that actually can be applied for to create businesses today. And now that we are here, maybe I should actually explain my latest healthcare venture and a moonshot. And exactly how we build that moonshot creating a business because that actually allows you to see that this is not some theoretical framework, this actually works in real life, right? So most people who may not know, I started a health care company called Wild. And as an Indian guy, I cannot pronounce the word v. So it’s V as in Victor. Don’t ask me why, but that just why would you name a company that you cannot pronounce? I just fell in love with the name. So we, as you know, is is life in French is life and as omics is science, it’s really science of life survival. So when I started working on the fundamental belief was, what if we can find a way to prevent and reverse all chronic diseases, including cancer and aging? So you’re talking about diabetes, heart disease, you know, you look at obesity, you look at depression, anxiety, Alzheimer, Parkinson’s, and you go on and on, and including every cancer and aging because aging is a chronic disease. If we could prevent and reverse these chronic diseases. The first question was, would it help a billion people live a better life? The answer is 7.4 billion people checkmark, good yeah. Now you see why now, while the now was we said, okay, in the lot to solve this problem, you have to be able to digitize the human body understand everything that’s happening in the human body, at a molecular level at a biochemical level, everything that’s going on in the human body, while we say wow, that It’s a tough problem in the last 10 years, the cost of actually digitizing the who even a single sample used to be billion dollars came down $2 million key now $200,000. And now it is six years ago was about $1,200. We said that’s too high. But we looking at the price trend. We know in the next three to five years that we’ll be down $200. And I think that’s affordable. So we started the company believing the technology will come down, and price will come down to about 100 bucks, guess what happened? It came down to about $18. So while we thought we were 10 times optimistic, it turns out never actually five times pessimistic. And that’s the power of exponential technology. The next thing was we said, look, even if we could digitize the human body, we won’t have access to supercomputers, how are we going to process this massive amount of data that’s coming in? And we said, look, this cloud computing is really, really starting to take off. And we’re going to start using this cloud computing. And we launched our first thing. And it cost us 40 $43. To process one single sample, we took a deep breath and said, Wow, that’s expensive. But we knew that cost has already come down from $5 to $43. In the next three to five years, it should come down to $10. Guess what it came down to about a buck 50. So literally, as you start to see when you find these technology at a trend, the last part when even if you process all the data, would AI be powerful enough to be able to actually analyze all this data and tell you what’s causing what to see, no one had argument about that was going to happen. So we took that for granted. And guess what everybody was right that we have the technology AI now, the last part was the most interesting part, which is why me I am not a scientist, I am not a doctor, I’m going into this area. And I don’t understand anything about human health. What guess what, that as opposed to being really worried that I don’t know about it. To me, that was the biggest asset I brought to the industry was, I wasn’t going to take what experts have said taking it for granted. I’m going to challenge the foundation of everything that people have taken for granted. And once you do that, you’re able to look at the solution that no one has ever looked at. So there were two things we saw. Number one was everyone in the industry was focused on genetics, your DNA they wanted to


Scott D Clary  17:30

what to the federal funds rates and the price of a barrel of oil have to do with you being able to buy a house this year? How do you suppose corporate earnings reports affect your next vacation, join marketplace host Kai Rizal as he untangles economic news, and gives you context you can actually use because the more you know about the financial world, the better you can plan for what’s happening in your own world. Listen to marketplace, wherever you get your podcasts.


Naveen Jain  17:57

Know, if I could get your DNA, they’re so unique to you, I will be able to tell you why you are developed why you have a certain disease. And being naive, I simply said, You really never changes. They say yes, it never changes. Wow. Interestingly, so if I do my DNA test today, a year later, I gain 400 pounds, my DNA hadn’t changed. I get depression on it in agencies, I get diabetes, my data doesn’t change heart disease. And then I get no Alzheimer’s, Parkinson’s, and I die. Even after I die. 10 years after I die, you take my DNA is still the same. So DNA can’t even tell you you’re dead or alive. How can it tell you that you’re healthy or sick? So if your genes are not changing what he changing, people say, of course, you know, gene expression in changing the RNA is ology. Holy shit. Let’s go measure that. And we never say, how are we going to do that? Nobody has ever done that. You said, great. So if we could measure the gene expression, because then we know you’re causing the onset of a disease or you’re developing a disease, how you’re progressing? Let’s measure gene expression. So I asked them great. Don’t ask me how but if we could measure all the gene, the gene expression on the human body? Would that solve the problem? Isn’t not quite what can be not quite I just saw the word hunger problem here. Well, the human body is not just homogeneous, coming, the DNA from our mom and dad 99% Of all the genes that are expressed in our body, actually are not our own. They are the 100 trillion microbiome that’s in our gut in our mouth and our nose and our ear, all over our body. 100 trillion of them, in fact, of all the genes that are expressed 99% actually coming from these microbes. So I started reading the in our I went back to my research and see obesity and microbiome. Obesity is connected to the microbiome, what’s interesting diabetes and microbiome and literally you can Google anything you want. Parkinson’s and microbiome Parkinson’s. It starts in the gut 50 Yes, before you see the symptom outside my my backdrop, cancer and microbiome and literally every disease is directly connected to microbiome. And at that point, most people would say, Eureka moment, like, I found it. And that’s the time you ask yourself and saying, You must be a complete moron. If everyone believes that is the problem. And there are 10s of companies doing the same thing. Why is this problem not getting solved? And then you go back to the framework, what questions are they asking in microbiome? Well, turns out everyone was asking exactly the same wrong question, which was, I want to know what organisms are in your gut, I want to know what organisms are the people’s gut who have different diseases? Now, don’t laugh. I have no idea what these organisms are, in my mind, I’m thinking these organisms like a tiny humans doing shit in my body. I said, Good. In that case, wouldn’t it be possible, there could be 1000s of different organism doing exactly the same thing that’s making me sick. So I take two people with diabetes, completely different organism, yet producing exactly the same thing that’s causing me a disease. So I think we need to focus on what they are doing, not who they are. Because the same organism could do something good in Scotts gut, because it’s in right environment, like friendly environment, and the same organism can make me sick, because my environment in the gut is fighting amongst each other, right? Just like I taught human being, you take a good person, put them in a bad environment, they do bad behavior, you take a bad person, put them in a good environment, they do good behavior. So let’s focus on what they are doing, not who they are. And that was fundamentally just, I asked and say, what if we can find out what these microbiome is producing? And we can find out every gene that’s expressed in the human body? And then we look at the totality of that, would that solve the problem? Everyone, see if you could do that this problem can get so great. So I went on a mission, trying to find this technology that could do that. Could you not, I went to every single university. And first my first stop was, by the way, NASA JPL. I, as you know, I was coming from the space side, I knew these guys have tons of technology to develop. And they’re sending the rovers to the Mars trying to find the damn organism on the Mars. They have they have solved this problem. So I go there at NASA JPL. And I’m like talking to the director talking to scientists. And they’re saying, We don’t care. We just need to find out the something they really don’t really care what they’re doing. And so you got a bunch of morons, I’m gonna go to the NASA yesterday probably got this figured out. NASA Euston, and now I get to touch all the moon rocks, I get to play with all the coolest stuff. But it’s still not technologically I now at the NASA Kennedy Space Center. No good. So I started going to the national labs, our Lawrence Berkeley, Lawrence Livermore. And unlike everyone, I’m starting to get like people say, yeah, it’s possible, but you haven’t done it. I am now at Los Alamos National Lab. And by the way, if you don’t remember know, last time was National Lab is famous for command. Scott, what would me?


Scott D Clary  23:05

I don’t know. I don’t know what. So I’m so enthralled by this story. I have so many questions. What is what is what is the what is the lab famous for? I can’t remember developing atomic bomb. Oh, okay. So I should know that. That’s, that’s my mistake. Okay, that’s my bad. Okay. So they have a little bit of technology there a little bit. So they basically,


Naveen Jain  23:24

even though it was called Manhattan Project, it wasn’t done in Bennett. And it was done. And so anyway, so these guys, I was there. And now I am like, at the end of my rope, and I’m thinking, God, I don’t know this problem is solvable or not. But I’m going to throw out a challenge to all the scientists and see is there anyone out here? Let alone what these guys are doing? Can they actually tell me if these guys what is a bacteria? What is a virus so that when you are sick, you can find out you need antibiotics or not. Now these one guy, so I have 12 Scientists pitch me like a shark tank, and they all have the idea. I can have a 3d microscope, I can do this, I can do that. And one guy comes up and says, you know, not only I can tell you what my what, whether it’s a bacterial virus, I can tell you exactly what they’re producing. I can even tell you whether antibiotics is going to work on that going to work. Well I can tell you which antibiotics is going to work, and I can tell you exactly what they are. And my first reaction was really, so What project are you working on? And the guy looks at me is it What’s your security clearance level? And then he says stop. And it’s it doesn’t matter even if you told me you work at CIA I can tell you that you don’t have a security clearance that was to stop asking me questions. And what do you see going on again, entrepreneurs like Oh, shit,


Scott D Clary  24:36

yeah, like No, tell me show me. Bullshit. I


Naveen Jain  24:39

said totally fucking bullshitting. You mean this my security clearance? Never forget it. I don’t need to know what you’re working on. Can you tell me how it works? And he said, Of course I can tell you. And he goes on to describe what they have done in the 10 years, developing a technology to be able to valorize RNA and basically it is a bio defense project and I just all I know that it’s been Basically to protect our country against bio weapons, right, you could argue there are cynics out there and say, protect the probably we’re developing by, not by going to get. But let’s just assume that protecting our country from bad bad actors, and they’re protecting our country from bad actors, what problem they have to solve, which is, hey, if there was a terror, we don’t care what organisms are there, we need to know what they just produced. So we can build an antidote for it, right? So they needed to solve the problem that I was trying to solve. And they literally, so it took me six months to actually license the technology, and hired the guy who was working on it, got him out of his federal job, and he’s my chief science officer, right, then. And then I said, got a novel, you have the technology to analyze this. I need the AI guy. So what do I do? I hire the guy, the head of IBM Watson to quit his job, bring his whole team. Just literally, so what we started why, um, so my point I was trying to make was, we asked a slightly different question. And that’s what allowed us to solve the problem that has remained unsolved. And the last part of why me is really important. And I think just from the perspective of any business, you start, Scott, it is going to have ups and downs. And I think you probably know, every entrepreneur who tells you, they don’t have ups and downs are either lying, or they just don’t know what the fuck is going on in their business. Every business goes through in fact, almost every successful business has gone through a what I would call near death experience, Facebook, Oracle, apple. I mean, literally, Apple, Amazon, everyone went through the near death experience, every one of these businesses, Apple was almost a dead company, Microsoft saved them now. Every one of these companies go through near death experience. In fact, what I you know, I don’t know, if you ever follow me, I always tell people, life of an entrepreneur is being alive. How do you know you’re alive, you have a heartbeat, it goes up and down, up and down. When you are when you have a smooth line, you’re dead. So if you’re looking to live a life, which is smooth, are you looking to live a life of a dead person, you’re not looking to live life. And the beauty of the thing is when you are down, all you have to do is hunker down and know the next beat is going to be up. And when you’re on the top of that beat. Never get too cocky because remember, the winter is coming and winter shall come.


Scott D Clary  27:26

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Naveen Jain  29:06

And the right things. I mean, it’s quite just another part to look at the people ask me how do I find my true calling. And I realized that it’s really easy. When you wake up in the morning, and you don’t jump out of the bed, you should quit what you’re doing because that’s not your calling. Because when you will really find your calling, you become so obsessed that you go to sleep thinking about it, you jump out of the bed in the morning, wanting to do it right and that when you get that you will find yourself to be in that zone that nothing can stop you from actually solving that problem.


Scott D Clary  29:37

When you’re an entrepreneur that focuses on coming up with solutions to problems that people didn’t even know they have. How do you look at building the business differently than somebody that does have a huge market and they’re just trying to be another part of that market? Because I don’t think people know like, I don’t know if you want to go into to Moon Express and moonshots, that’s, that’s another business that nobody has an idea that that’s even an option. Same with violence. Right? So


Naveen Jain  30:10

go ahead. Yes, I think that’s a very good question. Because people always wonder that I am a small business, how am I going to create a new industry and new business? The way to look at this stuff is not You’re not creating a new industry or new business, you’re morphing, you’re actually allowing people to look at the problem in a very different way. So when select this go look at why a minute. So when people get sick today, they believe they have no choice. What do they say? Oh, my God, really bad luck. Oh, sorry, you develop the cancer, bad luck. They never say, oh, it may be the matter of bad choices you made, not the bad luck. And my thought was, what if we can reframe that says, By the way, so here is just to tell you how crazy we were. Imagine living in a world where illness is optional. At people, honestly, when we came up with the tagline people looked at me is are you telling me it is my fault that I am sick? Do I want to be sick? And answer is yes. I says because what you put into your body is your choice. It’s not somebody shoved it down your throat. So food we eat, the air we breathe, the things we do are our lifestyle is our choice. Everybody, by the way, agrees that, you know, being healthy is a choice you have nobody ever argues with you is it is being healthier choice. People say of course being healthy is a choice. You make your workout everyday you do yoga, you do meditation, you eat right. And that’s a choice. And I say being healthy the choice, don’t you think being sick is a choice? And my point or make was that simply changing the perception of what we did? We said a lot. How about this, I’m going to show you what is happening inside your body. So we have this at home kit, right? So you get this kit at home. And you send us your sample. So in this case, you touch off his tool, a few drops of your blood and very soon a split of your saliva. And when you send it to us, what do you get back in turn, we show you the rash is inside your body, what’s happening in your body, that if you turn the body inside out what you will see, we tell you your biological age, hey, it doesn’t matter how old you are. Let me tell you how old your body feels you are right. So I am by the way, 62 My biological age has now gone down by nine years and 53 biologically. So not many people talk about reverse aging as if I become a baby No, but I have the energy of 53. And my hope is when I turned 70 My biological is come down to 40. So it doesn’t mean I’m not 70 I’m still 70. But my energy that my physical body is performing at the level of being 40. Then we give you your immune health, how well are you protected? If you were to catch cold or flu? Is your body ready to fight? Is your immune system at its prime? Or is the immune system not working? Or is too much inflammation going on in your body? Then we give you your gut health, your cellular health, your mitochondrial health, all the 400 insights into your body and the people. I don’t get that I don’t even know what the hell mitochondria is. Tell me. If it’s not good, what should I do? Good question. And then we literally tell you don’t eat broccoli, because we saw that your sulfide production in your gut is high which is causing inflammation in your body. And sulfide is being produced because it needs sulfate. So don’t take foods that are high in sulfate, which are what broccoli, cabbage brussel sprouts, which looks really healthy. But for you, they’re actually harming you. We saw that your oxalate pathway is not very active. So don’t eat food high in oxalate, which is spinach. So even though Popeye told you spinach is good for everyone, Popeye was not a scientist don’t eat spinach it’s not good for you. Right same thing people you know we look at the ammonia productions oh my god you got a lot of ammonia being produced causing a lot of inflammation is coming from fermenting the protein by these organism that is eating a lot of protein which is not being digested you have to choice cut down the protein or the digestive enzyme with that protein. And then we say hey, by the way, I hope you’re not taking vitamin d3 right now because your uric acid production is too high because it’s harming you. And if your your bile acid production is too high, don’t take curcumin or turmeric, which everyone tells is good for you. Not good for you right now. And by the way, you probably heard if you want to live long take NAD or nr or mmm you know all these things. You know? Guess what? Don’t do that because your cellular senescence is too high and you’re very high inflammation. Don’t take NAD But you do need 22 milligram of elderberry every day you need 27 milligram of Berberine. Everyday, you know 79 milligram of Emily’s every day. And all these vitamin, mineral, amino acid, digestive enzyme, you need them every day. These are the probiotics need every day. These are prebiotics, you need them. And guess what, if you want, we actually make those custom capsules with only those ingredients in that dosage for you every month. And as you retest them, we say, Oh, you don’t have any Berberine anymore. You don’t need the elderberry anymore. Now you need Shatavari and you need it. And we literally adjust your things every month, custom made robotically. So there is no pre made capsule ever. Everything is custom made for you. And guess what happens when you do that? People say well, how do we know it works? So we actually did a clinical study and we published it, that people who follow our stuff for just for four months, their depression score came down by 36% Clinical score, anxiety, clinical score down by 32%. Their diabetes came down by 30% measured by HB one C, their IBS you and stomach ache, constipation, diarrhea, 40% reduction in their IBS, SSS score, right? And literally that then people say, Well, how do we know it? Is the food that you recommended, or the supplements? You did? Great question. So we actually did the study that sold? What if people only followed food recommendation and the people who took food and supplement and we saw that people who follow food, their scores improved. But people who did food and supplement their scores can improve much faster and more in the same timeframe. Right? So we know that this makes a difference.


Scott D Clary  36:42

It’s incredible. Now, what is the moonshot for viam? So we’re improving people’s life. So what is the moonshot? Is it your cancer? Is it increased life expectancy? I’m super curious what this technology and this way of thinking and this, this, this individualized, yep, life that you’ve set up for people can actually achieve or what you want it to achieve.


Naveen Jain  37:05

Whilst they were you know that there were three parts of the puzzle, right, so one is able to prevent the disease from happening. And we are not naive that not everyone is going to do a biome test. And they by the time they come to us, they already have a disease. So can we diagnose them at the earliest possible time? While the diseases are still curable? Can we diagnose them early. So here’s the next thing we did, we actually were able to detect it stage one, not later stage one, oral cancer stage one throat cancer, just from your saliva, with 98%, specificity, and 93% sensitivity. So that means when we tell you you have a cancer, you have 93% Certain you have a cancer, when I tell you, you don’t have a cancer, the 98% chance you don’t have a cancer, right? By the way, unlike other cancer tests that are in the market like Grail 45% sensitivity, that means when they tell you you’re you don’t have a cancer, the 55% chance you actually do. And their sensitivity is so poor, we got FDA to give us a breakthrough device designation. That tells you FDA breakthrough device designation means this technology is so far superior to anything in the marketplace, it is going to change lives. And this technology is actually now ready. And you can continue to start to look at and develop it so you can people can use it in the future. And they work with you to get their approval to you. Now we are launching a cancer detectors by the way, in the next two months, where you can go actually at home is spit in a tube, you send it to us and we’ll send you a report that says Do you have an oral cancer, throat cancer, and we are now extending it to pancreatic cancer, bowel cancer, breast cancer, head neck, shoulder cancer, GI cancer, gut analogical cancer, so we’re going to literally have all these things, including things like diagnosing your diabetes, your heart disease, your obesity to know that are the internal signals that are starting to show that you’re going to develop you’re starting to develop these diseases, right. The last part was, what if we cannot diagnose them early enough? Is there a can we come up with a cure for the diseases that are always have remained uncurable? So if you have an autoimmune disease, you go to a doctor, they never say, Oh, let me find out what’s causing autoimmune disease, but they say, let me give you immune suppression. So you don’t have the symptom. But doesn’t mean you don’t have autoimmune disease. We keep suppressing the immune system. And when you suppress the immune system, what happens you get sick from some other things because your immune system is no longer working right? So we actually found what was doing what was causing this autoimmune disease that attacks your joints called ankylosing spondylitis. We went to GSK. And now they agreed to develop a vaccine against it using our technology where we get the royalty. Now the same thing we saw on the colorectal cancer, we went back to GSK. And they license that and now they’re developing a therapeutics against cancer, colorectal cancer, to prevent it and to actually start The progression of that cancer, just because we have now so much data, we have analyzed over 300,000 people already, that is allowing us to actually have all this data that’s allowing us to prevent it. If you not already diagnosed it, and then actually come up with the drugs, we now have dropped targets for things that are not curable today, which is IBS, IBD, oral cancer, throat cancer, colorectal cancer on aging. And we’re going to come back and talk about that a little bit more doubts are the kind of things we are focused on. So our moonshot is really simple. At the end of the day, somebody asked me that in 10 years, 20 years, where do you see Wyoming? And I see, my ideally, if my diagnostic business is completely shut down, and my therapeutic business has no business, I succeeded, because then I’m able to prevent everybody from getting sick. That is the ultimate goal.


Scott D Clary  40:59

But that so so that’s something so I think that that would be an incredible moonshot in 10 years, but realistically, there’s always going to be new things that are gonna pop up. And also, there’s, it’ll be unlimited opportunity. You mentioned one point about aging. So yeah, walk me what is what is the what is the the scientific reasoning for aging? And how are you tackling that? Yes,


Naveen Jain  41:23

what we are seeing actually, we published a paper that’s coming up himself. And by the way, a paper on the oral cancer and throat cancer came up in nature own magazine that’s published on the nature, so you can go check it out. But on the aging thing, what we found was we analyzed, as I said, over 300,000 people, and we looked at what was going on in their body as people age. And that’s actually this is how we calculate the biological age. So we now have people who are 18 years old, 19 years old, 20 years old. And every single age, when you come along is caught, and we sit now we look at all your biomarkers and say, Are your biomarkers similar to the person who is 32 years old, similar to the person who’s 62 years old, or person who is 19 years old, or person who’s, and that literally we say, This is what your biological is, looks like, based on all this massive amount of data, we saw the number one thing that’s the actually causes aging is inflammation in the body. So when your body has inflammation, what happens is all of your organs are at that point of sub function. And then as the as the inflammation continues to have a chronically a chronic inflammation, you start to actually develop a lot of these, what we call age related diseases, and if you can suppress the inflammation. So the number one thing Deepak Chopra, and other people have also said that chronic diseases, the root cause of all chronic diseases is chronic inflammation. And the chronic inflammation comes from many things, the food we eat, the stress we cause, right, because it’s literally the bidirectional gut and brain are connected. So when you are stressed it religious glucocorticoid that changes the gut microbiome, that in fact is now we can show that in Mike in many cases, your glucocorticoid is converted by microbiome into testosterone locally, that could cause Legion or a cancer. So when I saw that research, about a month and a half ago, my scientists were explaining it to me, only thing I could remember was glucocorticoids. I’m thinking that comes from stress. My mom was right. She used to always tell me when I was young, don’t stress is stress causes cancer. It’s like, I have never understood why she said that. Now we have a proof actually, this causes cancer.


Scott D Clary  43:38

Just want to take a second and thank the sponsor, today’s episode manscape Now you too can join 6 million men who trust manscaped by going to today for 20% off and free shipping with the code 20 success for all success story podcast listeners and whether you’re brand new, or you’re already with the manscape team you could use a crown jewel of care for your family jewels, the platinum package 4.0 Now with this package, you can align your entire hygiene routine all in one swoop and inside the 10 part platinum package is everything you know about the performance package, plus some shower goodies included to elevate your grooming game so you got the lawnmower 4.0 body trimmer and the weed whacker nose and ear hair trimmer. They have advanced proprietary skin safe technology. In addition to shaving you can now completely upgrade your shower routine with the ultra premium body wash and ultra premium two in one shampoo and conditioner. You’ll have your skin feeling hydrated and smelling fresh. And also don’t forget to apply their aluminum free or ultra premium deodorant. And don’t worry, it’s not pumpkin spice, it’s a cologne quality fragrance. Now manscaped even threw in two free gifts of their platinum package 4.0 The manscaped boxers and the shed travel back now to get this package and more going to and get 20% off and free shipping with the code 20 success that’s 20% Off with free shipping and when you use the code 20 success. I mean and that’s and that’s so that if you if you tackle that inflammation and that inflammation also curious to your opinion on this. Obviously, biome is not like a lifestyle and stress management company, it’s not your main focus, what percentage of aging can be combated, just from your gut biome and all the other items that impact stress versus your environment, do you feel you can do a good enough job just with with


Naveen Jain  45:25

nutrition is the key. Because the reason is, even if the things are, you know, if you don’t have if you have a poor nutrition, it doesn’t matter, you could meditate, you could do everything, your poor nutrition, there’s nothing you can do. So you got to get the nutrition, right, so that you reduce the gut inflammation, you reduce the underlying fire. And once you have done that, now your job is to prevent to keep lighting up that fire, right. So once you get the nutrition, right, then you want to make sure that you’re not constantly putting match on to that, which is reduce the stress. So that means doing things that are calm, making sure that you are in fact, you know, meditating, right? So just really finding calm stress, even when you’re eating, it’s really interesting. When your body is actually in a, you know, flight mode, what happens fight or flight mode, it stops the digestion completely. That’s literally what happens. Think about you running away from a tiger, do you think body cares at that point, digest the food, you’re going to become at home for someone else, right? So it basically shuts down all the non essential activity, including digestion. So when you are stressed at, you know, come home, and you’re stressed from work, and you start eating and putting the thing in your mouth, guess what? The body cannot digest that food. That’s the reason what do people do, they do gratitude, they calm down, they take a deep breath and put themselves back into the parasympathetic mode instead of sympathetic mode, then you’re able to digest and that’s the reason the idea of this gratitude came about was to be able to actually come back and say, Oh, I’m so thankful for, and that puts the bad the body into the parasympathetic mode, or taking a deep breath before eating and calm down. And then you start eating. And these were all these practices that came about what so the body is able to digest the food. Once you’ve done that, you know, so there are four things that are absolutely necessary for you to live healthy, live long, which is absolutely the best nutrition for you. And there is no such thing as universal healthy foods are no universal, healthy supplements, don’t think I’ll speak to you very specific to you. So first, you get the nutrition, right, then make sure you manage the stress. Number three, exercise exercise at any age, actually improves your gut microbiome. And it obviously puts the muscles in your body, that is all the good thing. Number four, sleep. Sleep is essential. If you if humans could evolve to live without sleep, that gene pool would have been the one that one that people did not when they don’t get enough sleep, you can’t actually fight the tiger, you can’t run away from a tiger. So that gene pool got wiped out that did not sleep. And the only gene pool that survived was a gene pool that was able to actually get a good sleep. And so those are the four legged stool for you to live long and live healthy.


Scott D Clary  48:20

Amazing. Amazing. Thank you. Thank you. Okay, so an honest question. How much time do you have, because I do want to talk about Moon Express. But I also want to be respectful. So when you’re stopped,


Naveen Jain  48:31

I mean, honestly, you got to have a hard stop at 10. So I need a five minutes to get a biological brief. So 10 minutes for you.


Scott D Clary  48:37

Okay, so let’s do I just want to talk about the premise of Moon Express, because we’re not going to get into all the details. Yeah. And then I’m going to do a couple rapid fire questions and get all of your your content so so I just love Moon Express, because I know Singularity University, I know XPrize and all those all those institutions are focused on like thinking differently, get the old premise that you asking the right question. So I’m gonna express you’re looking at and maybe explain in your own words, but from what I understand you’re looking at, not necessarily sending people and helping people live other places, but we’re looking at maybe using resources correct. And then using that to improve the lives of people on Earth. So So walk me walk me through a moon expresses because I want to understand why you decided to do this out of all the potential exponential businesses, industries, companies, you could have started.


Naveen Jain  49:31

So remember, we all 7.4 billion of us are living on a single spacecraft in this spacecraft called Planet Earth, and it’s flying by the way, it’s flying at a massive speed under space. If our spacecraft get hit by one asteroid, our whole species is gonna get wiped out, right? Similar to what happened to dinosaurs. So we all say, Oh, I’m really worried about our planet. I always tell them worry about the human species. Don’t worry about that. planet planet is just fine. If we get hit by an asteroid, dinosaurs are much bigger species they can survive, the human species is going to get completely wiped out. When dinosaurs died, what happened? The planet actually went on and it created humans, when humans won’t go away, it probably will continue on Create superhuman site with our No. And why I’m trying to make is that if we care about our species, we need to be able to distribute our species into multiple planets, not just even within our solar system. So going from Earth to the Moon, the reason is, the moon is a good stepping stone, once you learn to live away from the planet earth, all the technologies you can develop are, should be able to do on the moon, while we’re still close to the planet Earth. So if you’re going to get stuck, is better to be a lunatic on moon than to be a Martian six months away. But once you develop the technology on the moon, you don’t want to just go to the Mars, you actually want to go even out of our solar system, because one day our sun is going to implode whether we like it or not, right Sun is gonna go away, you want to be in a different solar system, then guess what, you don’t want to be in our galaxy, you want to go into different galaxies, so you’re completely distributed. And someday you may want to go to different universe in the multiverse. So you’re completely distributed, you’re able to reseed the planet when you need to, if they any destruction on the planet. So that is the long term goal is to create a multiplanetary society. As you were asking, in the meantime, we thought while we’re doing it, could we bring the resources back for and use them on earth while we’re building that long term business? So that was our initial thing is to say, hey, can we bring helium three that can be used for fusion energy? Can we bring other resources? While we do that, to build the long term business of surviving outside planet?


Scott D Clary  51:51

Incredible, okay, so I think that we’ll do a 2.0 People can go research Moon Express it because everything you’ve done with XPRIZE, at Singularity University is a whole other conversation, and it’s all incredible. Let’s do Okay, so let’s do this. Let’s first where can people reach out to you? If the website can tell what’s absolute? Where do they go?


Naveen Jain  52:10

They can go to Naveen That’s my website. And you can always send me an email through that. You can also follow me on LinkedIn, you can follow me on Instagram, and I always answer all my emails, all my messages. So send me the all the messaging you are don’t follow me on social media. Go to Naveen Send me an email from there.


Scott D Clary  52:29

Amazing. Okay. Let’s do a couple rapid fire biggest challenge that you’ve had to overcome in your own personal life? What was that? How did you overcome it?


Naveen Jain  52:38

Well, I think the biggest challenge we all face is really our mindset, when you start to feel that there is a competition and there is a finite things in the world, when you feel scarcity is what driving you. That’s when you feel once you create this mindset of abundance, that everything starts to feel good, because you know, your competition is inside you not outside you. That means you need to be better every day. And if you keep doing it, and the second challenge, really that most people face is not having a mindset of intellectual curiosity. The minute you develop the mindset of intellectual curiosity, you always in fact, constantly learning that day you stop learning is the day you die.


Scott D Clary  53:20

Amazing. A person who has been incredibly impactful in your life, there’s obviously been many, but who pick one who was that? And how did they had the impact you.


Naveen Jain  53:31

But I will tell you that, you know, life is the biggest mentor you can have life never stops teaching is you stop learning. Right? So to me, every moment in your life is the moment to learn every interaction you have is your mentor right there. Every you can learn from every person, whether they’re homeless, or their billionaire, you can learn something from everyone. So approach every interaction with intellectual curiosity to learn. Every time I’m sitting next to someone, I don’t care whether they are a musician, or I don’t care, their photograph, I learned some tricks from them that I would have never thought I would.


Scott D Clary  54:05

That’s that’s a good good advice. If you could tell your 20 year old self one thing, what would it be?


Naveen Jain  54:11

Never look at what is gone wrong or something to change. It doesn’t matter what happens. Look at that event as that was meant to happen. And know that things that look good or bad right now, a decade from now, the thing that look bad may actually turn out to be the best. So just always know universe is your friend. And there is no absolute good or bad because in everything that’s back today, they actually tend to be goodness tomorrow, because you learn a lot from


Scott D Clary  54:40

that. And then last question, what does success mean to you?


Naveen Jain  54:45

Success actually, that’s really simple. It’s not about the amount of money you have in the bank. It is about the number of dice you improve along the way is your success. And Humility is a sign of success. So when you become humble, you have been successful if you have Out of arrogance left in you that we are still trying to prove something to yourself or someone else and that’s not our success.


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