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Success Story Podcast

Kris Ruby, CEO of Ruby Media | Building an Agency, Mastering Social Media & Getting PR

By December 23, 2021February 28th, 2022No Comments

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About The Guest

Kris Ruby is the CEO of Ruby Media Group, a public relations and social media agency. Kris Ruby is a frequent on air TV contributor and speaks on social media, tech trends and crisis communications. Kris is one of America’s pre-eminent social media experts and is a frequent on air contributor on FOX News, CNBC, Good Morning America, The Today Show and more.

Kris is at the epicenter of the social media marketing world and frequently speaks to associations leveraging social media to build a personal brand. She also presents social media workshops for CEO groups to empower business owners to utilize social tools for their networks.

Kris was honored by Columbia University’s Business School to lead a social media workshop for its alumni organization, and was chosen to speak on personal brand authenticity at Microsoft. Kris graduated from Boston University’s College of Communication with a major in Public Relations. Kris was chosen by the Business Council of Westchester as the youngest “40 Under 40″ Rising Stars. Kris is a columnist for The Observer and covers social media, public relations and tech trends.

Talking Points

  • 10:36 — What does a PR agency do for brands?
  • 13:07 — Figuring out what brands you want to work with.
  • 21:46 — Why we don’t value creators more.
  • 26:47 — Can you pay in exposure?
  • 35:01 — PR and success KPIs.
  • 43:14 — The importance of an ever evolving company story.
  • 52:32 — How to tell a good story.
  • 55:53 — The art of getting media coverage.

Show Links


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What is the Success Story Podcast?

On this podcast, you’ll find interviews, Q&A, keynote presentations & conversations on sales, marketing, business, startups and entrepreneurship.

The podcast is hosted by entrepreneur, business executive, author, educator & speaker, Scott D. Clary.

Scott will discuss some of the lessons he’s learned over his own career, as well as have candid interviews with execs, celebrities, notable figures and politicians. All who have achieved success through both wins and losses, to learn more about their life, their ideas and insights.

He sits down with leaders and mentors and unpacks their story to help pass those lessons onto others through both experiences and tactical strategy for business professionals, entrepreneurs and everyone in between.








Machine Generated Transcript


people, pr, create, origin story, business, agency, podcast, spoke, creative, brand, Kris, creators, company, understand, social media, entrepreneur, client, shopify, build, question


Kris Ruby, Scott, Scott D Clary


Scott D Clary  00:00

Welcome to success story, the most useful podcast in the world. I’m your host, Scott D. Clary. That success story podcast is part of the HubSpot Podcast Network. The HubSpot Podcast Network has incredible podcasts for you to check out like remarkable people hosted by Guy Kawasaki, of course, brought to you by the HubSpot Podcast Network. The remarkable people podcast with Guy Kawasaki helps you better understand the changing world with interviews from thought leaders, legends, and iconoclast. If you are interested in business leadership, entrepreneurship, he interviews the best of the best leveraging connections that he’s built over his career. Here’s some of the episodes and interviews that he’s done. He’s spoken to Seth Godin, marketing God blogger author, he’s spoken to Pat Flynn, entrepreneur power podcaster and popular YouTuber he’s spoken to Jen Lim, happiness evangelist and author of beyond happiness you spoken to Steve Blank, author, entrepreneur and startup whisper if you want to listen to incredibly intelligent conversations with some of the most remarkable people on the planet. Listen to remarkable people podcast by Guy Kawasaki, wherever you get your podcast today. My guest is Kris Ruby. Kris is the CEO of Ruby Media Group, a public relations and social media agency. Kris is a frequent on air TV contributor and speaks on social media, tech trends and crisis communication. Kris is one of America’s pre eminent social media experts and is a frequent on air contributor on Fox News, CNBC. Good Morning, America, the Today Show, and more. Kris is at the epicenter of social media marketing, and frequently speaks to associations on leveraging social media to build a corporate as well as a personal brand, which has done well for herself as well. She also presents social media workshops for CEO groups to empower business owners to utilize social tools for their network. Chris was honored by Columbia University’s business school to lead a social media workshop for its alumni organization. And she has spoken globally most notably at Microsoft on personal brand authenticity. Chris graduated from Boston University’s College of Communication with a major in public relations. She was chosen by the Business Council of Westchester as the youngest 40 under 40 Rising Stars. She’s a columnist for the observer, and covers social media, public relations and tech trends. So what did we go into? So first, we spoke about Kris, and her origin story, her building her own agency, and some of the struggles and realizations and insights she has from being an entrepreneur, especially in the social media and PR space, we spoke about agency work how an agency can figure out if they want to work with a brand, how do you find your perfect clients, we spoke about what a good marketing campaign looks like for a company, we spoke about how Creatives or agencies can build relationships with brands the right way and not risk losing clients. We also spoke about some of the problems that she sees with companies in terms of PR and crisis communications. So a little bit about PR, a little bit about social media, and some of her insights on agency. And then she also just loves to nerd out at the latest and greatest tech. So we spoke about that as well. So overall, a great marketing conversation. So let’s jump right into this. This is Chris Ruby, Founder, CEO of the Ruby Media Group.


Kris Ruby  03:42

So my name is Kris Ruby. I went to Boston University’s College of Communications, I majored in public relations, I have 13 Internships by the time that I graduated a lot of different experience in all forms of media and communication. And so basically, I remember telling my college professor when I was a senior at the time that I really wanted to not go the corporate route and start my own company, and they just looked at me like, like, okay, you know, like, it was an insane idea. And lo and behold, that’s exactly what I did. And I think that one of the challenges that we have in America today is that we glamorize the notion of entrepreneurship, but we don’t actually have educators, at least at the college level, we’re really supporting entrepreneurship as a viable career path, and alternative and it needs to start at that level where we don’t just have other entrepreneurs saying that it’s great, but that if you have someone like myself, a student, who goes to a professor, to tell them their hopes and dreams and get some sort of feedback from them that yes, you could do this. This is the right horse for you. Ideally, that person will give them that push that they need so that they can try at the end of the day. We all need someone who is going to believe in us and believe in that idea, and I think was so intense thing is when we look at the Creator Academy, just how many people right now are really making a living off of these these different no code tools, these different SAS offerings products that they’re creating. It’s such a different world, even from when I graduated bu i think over a decade ago at this point, you know, my I was starting out on the social media wave, of course, like, you know, Facebook was the big thing, then, since then we’ve had Snapchat, tick tock clubhouse, everything under the sun. So there’s so much opportunity for people looking to create something in this economy today.


Scott D Clary  05:36

So you Okay, so you are entrepreneurial by nature? And I think that that’s a whole other conversation, and we won’t get into why I think education systems are broken, because I definitely do. And that’s a that’s a separate, that’s a whole other hour, so we won’t go down that road. But I think that so you were entrepreneurial, not entirely encouraged, encouraged growing up, but obviously, you know, you, you probably went through multiple jobs, probably wanted to do your own thing at always want to do your own thing. So you went through many jobs? What was the what was the point where you went and decided to start your own thing to actually build your own firm?


Kris Ruby  06:16

I just want to say one thing, I think I was always encouraged by my family. It’s just not encouraged by that one, you know, the one professor, I would say,


Scott D Clary  06:25

but also it’s not the it’s not even not encouraged. It’s like the education isn’t set up to support that, like the I don’t think that a lot of when I was in university, or college, high school, like a lot of the classes were not focused on building your own thing. On on trying to create something, take it to market, understand how to find product market fit, sell to your first time, that was not stuff that was taught at all, like not even close.


Kris Ruby  06:48

I think what’s really interesting is that all of this started with my like senior, the final like capstone project where I actually had to choose a real company, I chose this company in Hollywood, that I knew I needed to create a publicity plan for them. I still have that with me today. If I look, I’m not going to find it right now. But I put it together for this company. And she had he implemented and executed some of the ideas. And he said to me, you know, we companies would pay you for this. And that’s when I realized that wait a second, like this is actually maybe something that I should be doing above and beyond just majoring in this. Like, I think that definitely got me like moving in that direction. And then I think there’s some people who are meant for corporate America and some people who aren’t. So I had what was an internship that I had already had that was going to turn into a full time opportunity lined up before I graduated, I think that lasted maybe two weeks, because they said, here’s a press release, and you’re gonna craft this and this is the best time to put the release out. And I looked into it, and I said, No, it’s not. And they’re like, You didn’t listen to what we said like this is not like So you define a question. And so I was like, but it wasn’t the right time, we wouldn’t get the maximum, you know, media coverage, if we did it at this other time. So right off the bat, that’s all I needed to know, to see that. I needed to do my own thing. And this and I still had, you know, it’s here we are like 14 or 15 years later, I’m still doing my own thing, I’ve still never worked for someone else. And that’s what the entrepreneur lifestyle is really about. What’s fascinating is there’s a lot of people that sort of, I think go back and forth between it, I’m not sure that I look at that as like the true entrepreneurship lifestyle. Because for someone like me, you’re not I’m not going to succeed in a corporate environment. If you give me a boss that’s just going to stifle my creativity, I’m going to feel like I don’t have the wings to fly. And I’m not going to do my best work. That doesn’t mean though, that I can’t work with other people in a collaborative way. I mean, that’s what I do every day with clients, of course, but the the structure of that is vastly different. I have more independent and creative freedom to create. And I think one of the things that we could also talk about is like, how do you get the most out of the creative people that you hire? Like you’re spending a ton, you spend a ton on an agency, whether that’s a PR firm, marketing firm, you hire a consultant. And then I see it all the time, where you’re gonna bring that person to either create their best work, or their worst work, and you are part of that equation is the person hiring them. So what can you do to make your most out of that investment? You have to understand that? Who are they like, what is their personality type? And who are they going to get along with and who are they going to clash with? And these are the things that no one asks in an RFP, which is still mind blowing. To me to this day. Chemistry is the most important part of an agency client relationship. But it’s often not looked at until far too late until you’ve made a decision. And I will never understand how we can continue to make buying decisions, or at least other people can make buying decisions and not truly evaluate. Can we get along? Are we going to work well together?


Scott D Clary  10:14

So for Okay, so that let’s let’s go down that path. Like that’s very interesting. And I think that’s something that I’ve never even thought of discussing. So thank you for bringing that up. So let’s first queue up, what what do you do? What do you do for companies, for people that who don’t know who you are and who your PR agency is? What do you do for companies? And then let’s talk about some of these things that come out of that out of the work you do.


Kris Ruby  10:35

Yeah, so I am Chris Ruby, my company’s Ruby Media Group, I do public relations, media strategy, media relations, media training, all of these different services for clients. So basically, I have a three step process, which is package pitch and promote, it’s a process that we have come up with. And really my brand ethos is that if you build the brand of the person, you build the brand of the business. So we start first with the person, figure out what type of thought leader they are, what type of expertise they want to be known for, we package that we then pitch that to the media to target media outlets of their choice. And then once we get and secure media coverage, through traditional outlets, or podcast or or digital outlets, or even television, we then take that and we promote those placements on different digital media, or social media platforms where people go wrong is that they get a ton of publicity, but they don’t package it. So publicity in and of itself, just getting it is not the end goal. Putting it all together. In one clean package where someone can see this whole body of work that you’ve done, is really what the end goal should be with PR.


Scott D Clary  11:47

And what are and to, to, to speak to some of your wins. Can you name clients or or some people that you’ve companies you’ve worked with, that would just show the level that you’re playing that because I know that you’ve worked some big names as well?


Kris Ruby  12:00

Yeah, so I’ve worked with for example, IHG hotels, for way over seven years, I have worked with I was the agency record for Equinox in the tri state area, New York Metro for many years, handling the local PR for all the different gyms in this area. So those are two that that I can do impressively that I’ve done. And also, there’s there’s some other ones, but it’s super hard to talk about most of them.


Scott  12:28

No, no, I know. I appreciate. That’s why everyone’s you’re allowed to talk about. Okay, so let’s see that point you just brought up I thought that was interesting, because that’s something that So say I’m a brand, I’m trying to work with a PR agency. I’m putting out an RFP. So how do you know, outside of the the you know, you check all the boxes, they fill the requirements. But the thing that they don’t look into is, how am I going to work with these creative agencies? Well, how are we going to match? How are we going to actually create the best possible work? So speak to that a little bit about how brain can figure out and also how a creative a creative agency can figure out if they want to work with a brand?


Kris Ruby  13:07

I mean, I think there are so many signals right up front, where from a creative side, you can look at the questions you’re being asked in that initial, whether it’s RFP process, or just decision making process. Usually someone is going to get a feeling they and when you’ve done this for so many years on end, you get a feeling of is this person just chopping around? Do they just want information? Or are they really ready to make a commitment. And by I always say there’s a difference when people say I want very specific ideas. That’s always a red flag in PR or marketing world because that is the thing that we sell. Right? So it’s like sort of going to a bakery and saying, just give me the cookies, just give me a croissant. And it’s like, I guess you could just give someone a bag of croissants. But isn’t that what the bakery sells and what they do for a living. It’s the same thing with PR and marketing. So when you’re saying to someone, just give me your ideas. It’s like saying I want the croissants, but I’m not going to pay for them. Just let me taste their croissants first. And I think part of this is also like an education, educational journey for the people who are buying these services. You know, when we look at this country, we talk about all of these things that are broken, that need to be fixed in America. We talk about these huge sweeping issues that need reform. I don’t hear anyone talking about this issue. And this is an issue that needs reform, especially as you have more people entering the Creator economy. We need to start calling out bad behavior. We need to start holding people more accountable, especially people in positions of power, who I think often can abuse that position of power by asking people to do this work on spec, and then never moving forward to actually work with them. You know, we when I write a lot about canceled culture I never hear anyone and I don’t I’m not saying I’m I am not for canceled culture in any way. But I’ve never heard anyone talk about cancellations for the behavior I’m talking about. But it’s actually in a way a form of IP theft. When you’re asking people to do work when maybe you have no intention of ever hiring that person in the first place, or you just want to get as many ideas as possible without hiring that person, take all the ideas and then give it to someone in house to execute. And as far as I’m concerned, in 2021, the year we’re in that should not fly anymore, we should be having more business conversations about why that should not fly. Why that is wrong. Because if you look at a small business, someone like myself, anyone to who has to actually respond to those RFPs and give those ideas, I could be doing 3040 hours of work, my best work on an on a request like that, only for that to go nowhere. It could also go somewhere, but it could go nowhere. And at some level, we have to hold people accountable to the to really what the assets are. What are you asking someone to do? What what, you know, hoops do they have to jump through? Now when we look at by the way, there’s a ton of threads on this. If you ask someone, you want to hire them for social media for a full time job, and you say, just do a social media calendar or create some graphics, those people will say, this is not cool. They’re asking me to do this work on spec, there’s many Facebook guides about this. But with consulting, it’s different with consulting, it’s this understood unwritten expectation that you’re just going to do it, because you’re not a full time employee. And because if you really want the work, this is what has to be done. So I think we should have a conversation about that.


Scott  16:39

So okay, so that’s this is this is great segue because a lot of creative, you know, the creator economy is growing, a lot of a lot of people are trying to branch out the traditional nine to five isn’t what it used to be. So people are trying to do their own thing. Start their side hustles. And I see a lot of people that are trying to build their own consulting firms, services firms, they just take on anything because they just are they’re like they’re like, hungry, right? And I think that’s those are the people get screwed the most people that are just starting out not, not the more tenured firms that stay away from things like this, it’s the people that are probably going to get hurt the most the young people that don’t have the experience or the time, or the money to really to do work for free. But those are the ones that end up responding to these RFPs or doing work for spec or whatever. So advice for people that are starting to build their own thing. How do they how do they build it from scratch when and and and find good work? How do you find good work as a creative? How did you start?


Scott D Clary  17:41

I just want to take a second and thank the sponsor of today’s episode, Shopify, and don’t you love that sound as a sound of another sale on Shopify, the all in one commerce platform to start, run and grow your business use Shopify gives entrepreneurs the resources once reserved for big businesses, so upstarts startups, and established businesses alike can sell everywhere synchronize online and offline sales activity, and effortlessly Stay informed you can not only sell your product, but you can reach customers online and across social media networks. With an ever growing suite of channel integrations and apps including Facebook, Instagram, Tik Tok Pinterest and more. You can gain insights as you grow and detailed reporting of conversion rates, profit margins, and beyond whatever you need to track Shopify can track for you. And remember Shopify was built to liberate commerce for entrepreneurs and big businesses alike. Shopify is tirelessly reinventing tools of growth and scale for over 1.7 million businesses of 1.7 million businesses trust Shopify. To help them organize their online and synchronize with their offline sales. You should be able to use it for your business as well connect with your customers drive sales, manage your day to day, accept all major payment methods and integrate with any third party app you could possibly think of. If you want to try out Shopify right now go to story that’s all lowercase for a free 14 day trial and get full access to Shopify, his entire suite of features grow your business with Shopify today, go to story right now. Remember, success story is all lowercase. That’s story. Just want to take a second and thank the sponsor of today’s episode, get abstract now get abstract finds rates and summarizes top business books, articles and video talks in 10 minute abstracts to help people make better business decisions in their private and professional life. So you see if you are into learning and upskilling and I think that a lot of the people that listen to the show that are listening to some of the best and brightest people out there, really want to push themselves to the next level. So you want to listen to podcasts, you want to go on YouTube, you want to go on Udemy, maybe you’re sitting in a course, maybe you’re reading a ton of books, it’s so much content. So what get abstract does is it expedites the learning curve by making sure that you are getting the meat of all the different pieces of work that you’re consuming. So if you’re reading a business book, if you’re reading an article, it gets rid of the fluff, you get the main takeaways, and you still learn from that piece, you just aren’t wasting as much time when you’re consuming it. And if anybody here who’s listening to this is like me, it’s because your life is busy, I actually, I actually moved away from physical books into audibles just so I could 1.5 or two extra speed. So I could still get all the information, get abstract is an even better solution, because they’ve already done the research they’ve already read through and they’ve already summarized top points. So I highly recommend it for somebody that loves to consume loves to learn, but they’re a little bit strapped for time. And that’s most of us. So they have over 22,000 texts and audio summaries in areas such as leadership, finance, innovation, Health, Science, and more, they put together a special offer, if you want to check out get abstract, if you aren’t sure whether or not it’s right for you, no problem, you don’t have to stress about putting in a credit card and paying because they’re going to give you a month free if you’re a success story podcast listener. So if you want to try it get abstract if you want access to the 22,000 different text and audio summaries of some of the most prolific thought leaders of our time, go to get So g e t a, that’s get, you get one month free, you can go check it out,


Kris Ruby  21:46

I would like to say that this is an issue that only affects new creators. But I would say that I don’t think it’s true, because I think 10 years in 15 years in it, the same issue still exists, because we have a system that supports it. And that’s the unfortunate reality. You know, that’s like super disappointing for me to sit here and say, but it’s an area that is broken. And no one is really saying wait a second, like this isn’t cool. Like there’s no campaign around stopping this. There’s no one saying I’m, I’m not going to do this. Or if you want me to give you lots of ideas. That’s called a paid discovery, or a paid audit, right. And SEO, we know that that’s called a paid audit. And someone will say, Okay, I’ll find everything that’s broken, before I even fix any of it, here’s what it is going to be for my time to find it. And that’s how they start. And what I’m saying is in PR, we very much so need to do something similar, right? Like we’re in that first month, you’re saying this is happy to discover these issues. But pay me to discover them and pay me to figure out how I’m going to fix these things or come up with a pitching goals for you. But just doing that creative work should not just be given that you’re going to do it in order to get something so to answer your question, the first client I had, I think I met at the the gym, they had a was in a yoga class, and they actually had a big business. And that’s how we met. And they told me that they were looking for someone to help with social media. So if you’re just if you are just getting started, I actually think there’s there’s two new sites right now that are looking to take on LinkedIn, as competitors that have like heavy VC backing, and I can share the links with you afterwards. What’s really interesting about them is I do think they’re going to change the game in terms of a visual resume. And that is a great thing for creators, because people are going to hire, if you just show what you’ve created. Like if you’re a graphic designer, and people can see what you’ve made for other people. That’s great. You can skip a lot of what I’m talking about. I think some of this becomes more challenging, though. When your work at least in a PR perspective, it’s I don’t know how to show what I’ve done unless I post pictures of people I’ve got on TV or podcasts I’ve got for other people most of the time, I can’t really share any any of that because I’m under you know, NDA and confidentiality agreements. So it does make it a little bit more challenging in regards to answering your question.


Scott D Clary  24:15

So it’s not just early creators, and I didn’t realize it was so bad. I just assumed that early creators would fall victim to it more often. But that’s kind of upsetting. But I also think that it’s not a very public issue. Like if you haven’t experienced this yourself, do you know that an RFP could require like, I don’t think that the average person would even know that. How do you fix something like this? How do you So one example would be building portfolios, like visual resumes or just you know, list of work, but if you can’t do that, because you’re under NDA? Like I’m putting you on the spot here, but you have a fix for this because I see it being an issue, but I don’t see an easy fix. I can’t think of something that could be like, right away. Yeah, we’re gonna solve.


Kris Ruby  24:55

Well, the New York Times actually just wrote about this. And so what’s fascinating is The Influencers have come up with a few, like tick tock influencers or Instagram influencers, they’ve actually created a solution to this. I won’t even say the name of the site out loud because it has a profanity in it, but I will send you the links. And so some of them are created by influencers to rate brands. It’s almost like a glass door for brands about influencer, in partnership deals that they’ve done, where they can say, this is what they asked me to do. This is what they paid me or this is what they didn’t pay me or this is what their expectation was. So they’re now like, circumventing the system. So instead of all of these people just being alone, and trying to figure it out, their rating their experience with that brand, I think that’s probably a really great solution, as long as they’re not, you know, defaming, whoever that brand was, and they’re giving good feedback, I think that will be good to hold people accountable for bad behavior.


Scott D Clary  25:54

And okay, that’s, that’s, that’s great. So it’s, they’re building a community around. So yeah, you’ll have to send some links. Because if anybody is listening to this, and is, is a creator, these are resources that I think would be very, very helpful for them. So that’s one. So let’s go through let’s go through some of the issues you see in your industry, because that that is that is one issue that we see. So outside of outside of the, the brands abusing not abusing to some extent creators. What are some other issues you see, that revolve around PR?


Kris Ruby  26:27

Wait, I just want to be careful with that word brands. So


Scott D Clary  26:29

not abusing, perhaps not? It’s I guess it’s my word. So you know, I’m not putting words in your mouth. But I would say that brands are not not copying. I don’t. I think it’s I think it’s I think it’s not it’s not in good faith, but I think it’s when brands don’t copy for your work.


Kris Ruby  26:47

I mean, it’s just it’s an old saying, Can I pay you an exposure? Yeah, you know, and it’s like, stop asking if you can pay someone an exposure, stop assuming that that’s a way that someone can pay their bills, like you’re not you can’t pay Verizon an exposure, like you’re not going to pay your phone bill and exposure, like you need real money, whatever that money is. Maybe it’s Bitcoin, who knows these days? Right. But yeah, there’s gotta be something.


Scott D Clary  27:09

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.


Kris Ruby  27:12

So I think just understanding and having respect for the craft of creativity, and understand there’s a reason you’re going to these people, they’re clearly able to do something that you feel you can’t do in house that you’re reaching out to them for, there’s a price for that. And I think that price has to, you know, should be an align with what an alignment with what the market is, and what they are providing, they are, in a sense that in a way, you know, providing creative for you, just like a podcaster. I mean, you know, this too, I mean, you’re a creative yourself, podcasting, producing content, all of that, I think falls under the creative realm these days,


Scott D Clary  27:52

for sure, and I’ve I’ve never so I, you know, I guess I’m more sensitive to because I’ve come from a bit like a b2b background and a business background. So I never do anything for free. But I know that I know that some people that may be, maybe they just jump onto these contracts. And maybe they that’s what I mean, like, I know that abusing is not a good word, but it’s like they’re taken advantage of because of the naivety and just not being aware of what they can ask for what they should ask for. And I’ll just give you another example that I’ve seen. So I work with a lot of creators and people that ask for advice on how to build things. And I see for example, sometimes a company outsources, especially for influencers, I think, because influencers aren’t full marketing agencies company outsources a campaign to an agency, and an agency will go to an influencer. And they’ll say, basically build us a marketing campaign. And now they’re expecting the influencer to build a marketing campaign that they’re going to take back to the company that’s hiring the marketing agency. So it’s almost like they’re, it’s almost like now agencies are doing it to creators as well. They’re outsourcing work. And I also think that’s another issue. If you don’t even want to think through the process. You’re not even trying to be the creative. You’re just trying to act as a broker and leverage people that may not know as well, or may not have the infrastructure or may not have the resources. I think that’s also an issue.


Kris Ruby  29:07

Well, so I think what you just said also goes back to to another possible issue, which is when we talked when we started out today, talking about chemistry, compatibility between agency and client relationships, you just said is a really important point and all of that. Do you want someone who is going to be collaborative with you? Or are you looking for someone where you’re gonna say, these are the I just want you to execute this, right? So if someone comes to me, and they were to say, these are our creative ideas, you just go and execute it, I’m never going to be a good fit for that. I’m going to be a good fit as a strategic partner who can push back and say, Wait a second. Let’s think about this. You’re coming to me as an expert here. Right? Just like if you look at a doctor analogy, right? You’re not going to go to your doctor and said, Doctor, give me a list of XYZ medications. I self diagnosed on Google and just, this is all I need for me. The doctor is gonna say, Hey, wait, I would lose my license. Since for that I wouldn’t be practicing medicine the way I’m supposed to, if I just write a prescription for everything that you think you’d be, but yet, we have people in our industry in the PR marketing industry, who practice this field every day this way, and which in, in my opinion, is a form of malpractice, when you if you’re accepting payment from someone, and they’re telling you to do things that you know, are not going to get them the best possible results, but you’re doing it anyway. Because you don’t want to rock the boat. You want to make that client happy. They’re the client, the client is right. After all, they’re always right. But is the patient always right? If the patient says give me


Scott D Clary  30:40

if the patient self diagnosing? Yeah.


Kris Ruby  30:44

So this is where again, there you said, What’s wrong with a PR industry? What’s wrong is that you have people who hire agencies who then dictate and self diagnose, and you don’t have practitioners who push back and say, If I do that, I’m not actually doing the right thing for you. Right, I could do that for you because and then they won’t say much, because they they want to keep that account at all costs, even if it’s not in the best interest of the person who’s hiring them, right. So if I go to a doctor, another example, and I say I need these things, the doctor can see, well, I could give them to you. But just so you know, if I give you what you want, it could kill you. Are you sure you still want it? Now? Anyone? Have a brain is going to say no, fine, forget it. I don’t want it. But when we think about things in PR terms, when we have this conversation every single day, from a PR agency client side, and people will like oh, he won’t really kill me fine. Do it anyway. And that’s just ludicrous. To me. There is no governing body in public relations that I mean, we have prsa in the code. There. They’re ethical, I think their code of conduct. So we follow that. But there needs to be more done in this area. Because I do think it’s a real tragedy when you hire people to who are experts, and then you don’t let them be experts.


Scott D Clary  32:02

Do you have a Do you have a suggestion for people that are creatives that are in this cycle where they don’t want to lose clients? How do they? How do they approach the relationship the right way,


Kris Ruby  32:12

you need to find the right fit. So I can tell you this, it’s really, really hard. I, I can count on one hand, the number of times I have felt I’ve had the freedom to fly and to do my best work with the people that I work with it and it comes and it takes so many things coming together the right budget the right time. And why do I say the right budget, because that means it’s scoped properly, inspect properly, for the actual amount of time needed to do something so that no one’s resentful. Everyone’s happy that they feel like they’re getting compensated to do what actually needs to be done. That affects work, by the way that affects outcome, just like it would if you had an employee. And you, you know, for example, paid them an entry level salary for a senior level role. All of these things still apply in the world of consulting. I’m not sure I’m not sure why when we look at the creators in the crater economy, we somehow apply a different set of rules for them than we do to the people that we hire. These creators are showing up for your business every single day, in a pandemic, by the way, that has gone on for over a year, and they’re still showing up to do the work every day, collectively, as a society, we need to respect that honor that and have more mutual respect of what that actually means they’re showing up for you the same way your employees are. But yet, they’re often just totally like neglected or rejected out of any team activities, or anything else that I think is going on. And so I think that we need to really rethink how do we view the role of creators and 1099 and consultants as being part of our team, because the world of work is changing. And you’re gonna have way more contractors as more people are working from home, as more people have left corporate America want to do their own thing. So if we want to keep them, we need to first ask the question, What can we do to make them happy to make them satisfied? It doesn’t just mean thinking about how can we keep our full time employees happy? We have to start asking how can we keep our contractors happy, because they’re showing up for you the same way your full time staff is?


Scott D Clary  34:23

I want to, I want to unpack from you what good PR looks like a good campaign looks like because I want to understand what companies who perhaps impose their own idea of what good looks like on a campaign that you’re running. And it’s not perfect. You know, you said you can count on one hand, how many times you’ve had creative control, and budget and everything all the stars aligned for a great campaign. So what does a good campaign look like for a company versus what do most companies sort of just allow to happen when they Run a PR campaign?


Kris Ruby  35:01

I think old companies are not that’s that’s not the right way to say it. I think a lot of companies are using old PR metrics to evaluate the KPIs and success of the campaign. And what I mean by that is they’re just looking, okay, we paid X. And how many hits did we get for y every month? I think PR is so much more than just media relations. And by that, I mean, it’s not only how that agency is managing relationships with the media for you, it’s also looking at things like brand activism, like evaluating corporate social responsibility and your place, enroll and all of that. And if you don’t have a CSR campaign, possibly creating one for you, right, and so that could be months of creating that campaign before you ever pitch, right? So how are you going to look at for those months, if you use the old metrics, like I’m talking about to say, success of a PR campaign is only getting X amount of hits? Well, then what’s going to happen for those months that you’re building something, you’re building something that can truly change the trajectory of that company, it can change recruiting efforts, it can change, people wanting to attract and retain talent at that firm, right. But if you’re looking at it, like, Oh, we didn’t get you know, five national hits this month, then you’re not going to be truly actually looking at, yes, we didn’t get XYZ, but we were buildings that we can now get something even greater. So I think that in order to evaluate PR, we need to look at what PR is PR has changed. It is not just getting someone placed on a podcast, or a digital outlet, it is looking at all the different ways that we can connect with the target audience and consumers that our product or service or company can reach. And being part of those communities a lot of times it means finding those communities to start with. It doesn’t only mean getting a hit on a national TV show anymore. And so I think there’s this sort of divide in the PR world of the people who practice PR the traditional way, which is to say there are some people that are just TV Booker’s, there are some that are just radio Booker’s. There are some companies that only do podcast booking. And then I think there’s companies like mine, where it’s really what we do is I think, more digital PR, where it’s content marketing. It’s personal branding, and social media, it’s digital PR, it’s a combination of all of these things together, and understanding how that’s going to, for example, fit in with search results, and what sites will move the needle for that for page one for you. Right. And so that’s something where you could get ahead on a national TV show. But does that actually change anything from a ranking perspective?


Scott D Clary  37:43

You know, it’s interesting I was talking to, I was talking to the the head of Andrew Yang’s marketing campaign, and how He basically took it from his mother’s house for when he was making the presidential run. And he said, he got traditional media, he got him on news. And it was like, nobody cared. Nobody cared when he was on I think, I think he went on Fox, once he got like, 10 hits on the website. Then he got him on Reddit, and it just like overload, and then he got him on Joe Rogan. And that was even even more. So I think these like these really niche media outlets. If you understand your audience, it is not just getting on Fox, or CNN or MSNBC, or any any outlet. It’s just about getting where your audience actually cares. And I think that that’s very important. So on that point, when you run campaigns, you’re looking for a more holistic strategy that actually impacts the the company versus we’re just going to put you primetime somewhere, no one’s going to give two shits about this segment, except you because your audience doesn’t care. And that’s the only thing that we’re going to get out of you and not something that you think is more of a traditional P I think just want to take a second to thank the sponsor of today’s episode. HubSpot. Now, the holidays are here and that means client gifts, maybe your classic type that goes for the champagne or the gift basket or maybe you’re a little irreverent and you go for the custom bobblehead, or monogram Stress Ball gifts are a great way to show your customers that you care what clients want. What they really, really really want is time and attention and a little bit of love. HubSpot CRM platform helps your business connect with customers consistently, consciously and shows them Whole Lotta Love. new customer centric features like a CRM powered CMS means your marketers and developers can personalize the customer experience and ensure that the intention you give your customers is reflected in the data that is timely and relevant. Your customer portals keep ticket conversations going between customers and reps offer access to your knowledge base and can be customized to fit your brand all without coding a thing. It’s a customer gift that keeps on giving. Learn more about how HubSpot CRM can help build, maintain and grow your customer I just want to take a second and thank the sponsor of today’s episode playbook. Now what is playbook playbook is an app that gets to know your unique financial situation and helps you get the most out of every dollar you save the best part. You don’t have to do any crazy budgeting or change a single thing about your lifestyle. If you’re just making money, but you’re not sure what to do with it playbook is the app for you. For the average user playbook helps boost their net worth by over $1.3 million playbook tells you which tax advantaged accounts that you need, how much money to put into each one of them. And automates all these investment processes for you. It’s rare that you find a finance app that thinks about your finances as a whole. This includes your taxes, your savings and your life goals, it was super simple to set up, I just set up all my accounts. And then I set my preferences as to where I want to put my money, and then it’s on autopilot. So I can be investing in my Roth IRA, and my travel fund or my new car fund or my wedding fund, or my kids education fund, all in one spot. And on top of that, because it can forecast where I’m going to be in 1020 30 years, I know exactly how much money I’m going to have when I do want to retire or when I’m going to actually hit those milestones in my life financially, because I’ve set up these automatic contributions. So if you want to get on the road to financial freedom, go to Hello playbook comm slash Scott, you can immediately predict when you can finally stop working, you don’t even have to sign up for the service yet you get a free playbook impact, it’s going to predict your net worth, if you follow the guidelines that they set out for you to remember, go to Hello That’s your special link for a free assessment and basically roadmap for your future net worth sign up for playbook today. So you can enjoy financial freedom and beyond,


Kris Ruby  41:42

I think a holistic so I did. So I just want to push back on that a little bit. Because I do care, right? It’s just one of five things. So I don’t want to say that they don’t care. Because having that, you know, to say that you were on national TV is still good. In a wheel of things. Right? What I’m saying is that, to only just have a, you know, a book of PR hits where it’s just one type of media. Yeah, I don’t find that to be holistic. I think it has to be all of these different types of media. And I think that’s super challenging, right? So for people, I’ll tell you this for someone like myself, I’m an on air commentator, pundit. I’ve been on national TV over 200 times, when I started doing podcasts, that was a huge change. For me, I am trained and speaking in sound bites, and in speaking in cable for cable news, where I’m in and out with three to five minutes. And then I start doing podcasts and they’re recording for 30 minutes an hour, then I start running clubhouse rooms are going on for six hours. That is a very different environment, then what I am used to and clubhouse I think in many ways was also a big challenge. I think for someone like me with a traditional journalism background. Yeah,


Scott D Clary  42:51

yeah. Yeah. So so but regardless, regardless, if you if you do have this holistic strategy, you still have to have a good story, you have to, you know, you have to get people’s attention. So if tips for tips for that would be great. Just how to build that story, how to get that presence, how to get people’s attention, even if it’s across a variety of different mediums, it’s there still has to be a story to tell.


Kris Ruby  43:14

We have to understand look at what the market wants right now. Don’t look at why you created your company. For example, why did I create my company? 15 years? I always hate telling my origin story, actually. Because I I feel like our origins? No, but I feel like it has to change, right. And so sometimes I feel like Well, someone has is sexier origin story who’s creating a business today than they did 15 years ago, because whoever’s creating it today, ideally, is probably going to be more in line with whatever’s happening. So what I’ve learned, and I’ve, like really thought about this a lot. And I’m glad we’re talking about it, what I’ve learned is that you have the core of your origin story. But you can also update it, right, you can update it each year to keep up with times and adapt. So that why you created something 15 years ago is probably not like if you were to create that today, it may not be the same. And so I think that we have to adapt the message, adapt the mission, so that we feel good about what we’re putting out into the world, right? Like if you ask someone why they created something, you know, 10 years ago, they’re not going to be super pumped, I think about that they’re maybe more pumped to talk about like why they’re creating some new AI application right now, or, you know, a new tool. And so we have to figure out ways to update the messaging to update our own messaging and our own narrative of why we did what we did. And do we still choose that same path today? And I think like that is a really tough question. For a lot of business owners and entrepreneurs to think about. It’s easy for everyone to come on a podcast and say, Here’s my great origin story, and here’s what I’m doing, but it’s not as easy for them to be honest and real with themselves. And say is the reason I created this company 15 years ago, this Same reason that I would create a company today or a new company. And if it’s not, that leaves them in a position where they have to really think about the future trajectory? Or how can they update that message or that company?


Scott D Clary  45:15

You know, it’s interesting that you mentioned that because even before we were talking about, you know, what’s your what you want to talk about on the show? And and I was saying, Oh, you will you speak about so many different things. Like we have to figure out like, you know, which, which, which, which direction you want to go in? And it was, and you’re like, Well, isn’t that everybody, and I really do find that people have like this one specific focus for like a task that they’re working on right now in life. And that’s what they want to talk about. But it’s never updating the origin story. It’s like, here’s my origin story, plus item that I care about now. And that’s like, that’s a small piece of the thing that keeps changing. It’s just like the book or the podcast, or the or the, you know, the in the company I just started but it’s like, that’s like the thing they want to talk about. But they don’t ever really update the backstory, the backstory is like, well, it almost gets to the point where they just, it’s like people who are excited about their origin story, and they walk through because they’re very, they feel like it’s very impressive. And then there’s people that have just lived so long. They’re just like, oh, yeah, you know, I had a great career and like, this is what I’m working on that but nobody really tries to update the context of their story and how it’s impacted. I guess, their journey as a as they’ve grown professionally, personally, like, everyone just kind of leaves it the same way. And they just keep adding on bits to it. And then it just seems just like this giant thing. That Well, that’s it. And then I guess, the thing is, that’s not relevant to the audience. That’s not as relevant anymore. If you have this giant origin story, this lasted 30 years, and you just, it’s like this, like, list of bullet points. And now you just read through every time you go on a podcast, or when you talk to somebody or when you you know, if you have like a you know, a website, that’s what people know you for. It gets it gets old, it gets tired.


Kris Ruby  47:01

I completely agree. Um, so I think we’re probably having one of the most the realest conversations around this have anyone on any of these podcasts? Because you’re right, I think what happens is people had the the narrative, the talking points, or the the talking points that maybe the PR firm has given them that they want to stay within, right. And that’s considered like a great head, and they don’t want to go outside of that. But I think the more challenging conversations are like, wait a second, let’s really talk about what does that does that origin story still apply? Is that does that origin story not only inspire your audience, but just that origin story inspire me today? Like, these are the tough questions, I think, as creators or business owners we need to talk about, but we are too afraid to talk about it. Because it there’s vulnerability in saying, I need to put my origin story on the table. And some of that is deep reflective work for the entrepreneur. I mean, I have to tell you, it’s something I think about every single day, every single day, I think about how can I update, something I created 15 years ago to be as hot and sexy as these other things that are being created today. And that’s a really hard thing to do when you’re have to reevaluate everything that you’ve built. And so much of the time, I mean, this is why people even when they’re doing content pruning or an audit on their site, they don’t even want to get rid of content that doesn’t rank or doesn’t perform, because it’s something that they’ve created. It’s something they’ve written, and it’s so hard to let go of what you’ve created. And the best way to look at it is that it’s not necessarily letting go of it. It’s just trimming it so that it can be replaced with something different, or better, or that reflects you today.


Scott D Clary  48:42

You know what else I think that it’s interesting that we’re we’re talking about this because people in their mind think that they have to be this perfect iteration of themselves that to be the perfect version of themselves. And you tell an origin story so many times and you tweak it and you refine it and you change the verbiage every single time you tell it so that it’s almost like, you have like some superhero origin story, and nothing bad has ever happened to you. And that’s what the end result is after doing, you know, mentioning it for 100 times in a row. But I find the stories that are most compelling, and the most emotionally engaging, are the ones that actually have a lot of human component, a lot of a lot of failures, and a lot of lessons and a lot of things that because I find perfection, and success. Nobody really cares about that. People want to people want to dive into how you failed how you succeeded how you figured this out? How you, you know, fuck this up, and it was just horrible. And then how did you recover from that? And I think that actually the people with the best stories are the people that include a ton of failures in their story versus just the like the highlight reel.


Kris Ruby  49:48

I completely I completely agree. And that also makes me think a little bit about canceled culture too, right. When you talk about failure. I mean, there’s so many different definitions of what a failure is today. And where do you I mean, that’s a whole Probably separate conversation we can have on that.


Scott D Clary  50:02

That’s a long conversation. I think that I think that right now it’s it’s it’s unfortunate. You know, there’s obviously some things that are not great things that people have done in the past, but a lot of people have grown as individuals. And I think that makes it very compelling story, if you can grow as an individual over your life. And I think that that’s something that canceled culture definitely does not enable people to be real about who they are and who they were and how far they’ve come. Because God forbid people find out about something that you’ve done 20 years ago, and all of a sudden, that’s relevant today. Whereas you’ve, you’ve made leaps and bounds and who you are since then. And it’s not forgivable, but it’s something that I think somebody who’s hit a low and has become a better person, in my opinion, is is has more has more depth than than somebody who’s just done everything right their entire career and is never understood it down.


Kris Ruby  50:54

You know, one of the things I say and so I, I wrote an exhaustive and very comprehensive article on canceled culture and brand management, and we can share this resource with your listeners, because I think there’s a lot of helpful information there. But one of the questions I asked readers is I say, how can you cancel yourself before someone else does. And one of the ways that you can do that is to actually, as you’re thinking about your origin story, right? Maybe if you know that you’ve done something that is worthy in the public’s eye and be canceled for possibly include that, in your origin story, just own up to it before someone in the media decides to write about I mean, there’s so many ways to tackle it. But you’re I think that’s a really interesting topic and tie into this notion of an origin story. I just don’t get the whole origin story. It’s interesting, I guess, origin stories are perhaps really inspirational to other entrepreneurs, are someone thinking about starting something? But for me, like I want it what I want to hear what’s your day to day story? How do you make your work when people forget your origin story? 15 years ago, like, how are you making it work today? And the middle of a pandemic? Like and when we when we have inflation going on in this country? Wouldn’t we have people being canceled left and right, like, what is your today’s story? How are you living? And just getting by? You know, and I think that story is the story we need to hear?


Scott D Clary  52:19

What what, what resonates most without with, with media, when people are trying to get their story out there? What should people consider? Is it? Is it what you just said? It’s the it’s the today’s story you’re doing?


Kris Ruby  52:32

It’s always no, it’s not really about what you’re doing. It’s about what’s going on in the media, and how your expertise ties into that. So it’s actually not about you in any way people spend way too much time thinking about themselves when it comes to coming up with a PR media strategy. Well, they don’t realize is the media has their own, they, I’m not gonna say they have their own strategy, there is a new cycle, there are things happening, they need experts to plug in to talk about those stories. So you have to figure out what type of expert Are you? What do you want to be known for? And how can you help them when there is breaking news. So for example, I provide commentary on social media, tech, big tech censorship, things like talking about clubhouse, anything or a tick tock or Facebook. So that’s going to be in my wheelhouse. But I’m not going to say let’s say Instagram comes out with something about, I don’t know, follow hiding likes or this or that actually, that is something I spoke about. But the point is, there’s a difference between what is relevant to me and my audience and to other trade publications to what is relevant to the national news. So you have,


Scott D Clary  53:39

oh, I was gonna say, give tips for so say somebody wants to so tips for people who want to be relevant for a national news cycle yet more traditional coverage?


Kris Ruby  53:49

Yeah. So I’m going to look at right now I’m going to Google Social Media on Google, then I’m going to click on news. Oh, here we go. Like, here’s the top story, how I’m being shamed for not being an activist on social media. This is actually this is something like this comes up as the top story interesting that I see this, this is something I could provide commentary on. And what I would do, and this is where content marketing ties into this, I’ve written extensively on canceled culture, I’ve written extensively on brand activism and on corporate social social responsibility, I would tie in this story that I just saw, and include the links of three other pieces of work that I’ve spent months working on in research, and then give someone examples of me on air so they could see and say, if you’re doing anything on this, or if you want to take this and turn this into a segment, here’s what it can look like, here are my talking points on it. And I’m an expert that could provide commentary and add to that story. That is PR. In a nutshell, it’s how can you look at something and be helpful to the person who may be booking that or who may be producing a segment on that, but it’s also understanding I’m looking at other things on here, right? There’s there’s other things that I’m I’m probably not going to comment on so it’s Not it’s not thinking that you’re an expert in everything. It’s figuring out the things that you truly are. And putting that on a platter to the media.


Scott D Clary  55:10

Very good advice. Very, very good. Thank you. Appreciate it. No, that that’s, that’s, that’s great. That’s just it just simplifies it. It really, it really simplifies like the concept of PR, which, like, even again, we were talking about, you know, how many other PR experts have you had in the show and not not many. But I think that it’s still very confusing for some people what PR is what PR isn’t, and, and how to get an effective campaign out how to get some awareness out. And I think that just simplifying it so that somebody who is perhaps not at the point where they can afford a firm can at least get some coverage and understand what news and outlets are looking for. So that they can at least try and get something on their own. That’s that’s really the the goal.


Kris Ruby  55:53

If you want to get media coverage, pretend that you work in a newsroom, pretend that you work, you know, an orange, a national broadcast environment, and pretend it’s your job to find and book guests every day. And to follow with what is going on with breaking news. literally forget thinking about PR for a second, and, and put yourself in the position of someone who is in charge of producing and booking these shows. That is the best PR advice I can give anyone. But it’s the advice that almost no one takes because instead they think about these fancy C suite strategies that everyone is going to sign off on and that everyone’s going to love but may have zero to do with what’s actually going on in the news or in the world. And I think that is where a lot of I think campaigns sort of go flat is that they think of it like a campaign. They don’t think about it like how can I actually be helpful to the person whose job it is to create an e book? Guess


Scott  56:50

I mean, good. No, that’s great advice. Okay, so let’s, let’s wrap up this, I want I know that I know that we spend a whole bunch of time talking before this. And we kill the whole bunch. I’m just riffing on on various topics. So I want to ask some rapid fire like career questions to pull some insights out of you, because you have had an incredible career. Before we pivot, were there any other things that you wanted to bring up about PR about, about agencies that we didn’t go into?


Kris Ruby  57:21

So yeah, so you one thing that you asked me was about? Well, I can talk about the future of PR, I think the future of PR, is AI integration into PR. And that’s the thing



that I’m most excited to ask you about that.


Kris Ruby  57:33

I don’t think you do a whole other episode on that. But so I think I’m really excited about AI and how it can help publicist do our jobs in a different or better way. So that is what I spend a lot of time researching. Right now.


Scott D Clary  57:46

What do you what do you, we were talking about some tools like, like, like GPT, three, like writing tools and stuff like that. So what what things do you mess around with that? get you excited? What tools new tech out there?


Kris Ruby  58:02

Yeah, I so I can’t say specific names of one. Although I do have a tech stack. I think I bought almost everyone that exists to try them out, I’d probably have more than 13 of them at this point. And even if I hang up today, and there’s a new one, I’ll probably buy that, too. So I’m fascinated with all of this and the use cases for them and how we can create things. But I think that I mean, that’s something I’m currently working on right now. The integration of PR AI and and some of these tools, we’re talking about to figure out how can we use this in our industry? I don’t think anyone has truly necessarily, like solved or addressed that. So I’m spending a lot of time looking into that, as all I can say,


Scott D Clary  58:41

Do you feel like it’s at a point in 2021, where it can start to replace the human component or the creative component?


Kris Ruby  58:48

I don’t think will ever replace it. I think that it complements it. So there’s all these articles where writers lose their job, because I know, I think that none of I think that the output of these tools is not meant to replace the input of that makes sense. What you should get is ideas from that output. But if you’re using that as if you use that verbatim, that’s not actually how any the people who create those tools, I advise that you use them. So I think that if you are a smaller boutique agency, I think having access to these tools is tremendous for you because it’s like having five more brains around you and it helps you think of ideas. And that’s always great in terms of the creativity process.


Scott D Clary  59:32

I want to do I want to do an entire episode on on Chris Ruby’s app sumo tech stack. Episode to do. I know, I know, you get the nerd out at this stuff. I told you before I live on App Sumo. I go to product on all the time and I try and find new stuff on product. Like I love this stuff. So


Kris Ruby  59:54

I do too. So my prime time for finding these tools is between 1am to like 3am Yeah, that’s like literally when I’m searching.


Scott D Clary  1:00:03

I think that’s when you spend the most money to you just, like at that point, you don’t even think like if I’m ever gonna use this, like, Oh, this is for life, like how the deal if it’s for life.


Kris Ruby  1:00:13

Exactly, exactly.


Scott D Clary  1:00:16

All right. Um, okay, if people want to if people want to connect with you, I want to drop your socials and his contact info in the show. So where should they go?


Kris Ruby  1:00:23

You know, I want to, I want to say one last thing, because you made me sad about it. When you just said this as for life, you, here’s what I’m going to leave your listeners with. PR is also for life. PR is not a free month campaign. It’s not like you’re just gonna, if you’re serious about it, if you want to be a commentator, if you want to be part of this world, in the media, it’s actually a lifelong commitment. It means being part of the news, following the news, reading the news, doing your own research on a daily basis, that does not mean you just hire a firm for a few months, you get a few logos, and you call it a day. So similar to what Scott just said about these lifetime deals being lifetime commitment. I think the same is true about PR, especially in terms of your niche, and what you are pigeon holed into. So if you are going to be a social media expert, you will be a social media expert for the duration of your career. So understand that whatever you are pigeonholed into now is what you will be known as forever. So it’s very hard to move in and out of those titles. So think long and hard about what what title and what area of expertise. You want to stay in for a very long time. I think that is something I wish that maybe was shared with me before I even started and so hopefully that will help your your listeners today.


Scott D Clary  1:01:47

That’s good advice. Okay, so where can they where can they reach you? What’s the best spot?


Kris Ruby  1:01:53

They can You can reach me? Ruby media or Chris I’m on Instagram at Chris Ruby Twitter at sparkling Ruby or LinkedIn. Kris Ruby.


Scott D Clary  1:02:03

Okay, perfect. Okay, so rapid fire. Well, you can even I say rapidfire some people take a long time. It’s up to you. But you can long or as short as you’d like for these questions. So biggest challenge in your career? What was it? How did you overcome it?


Kris Ruby  1:02:16

I think the biggest challenge in my career is that I started out without having that corporate training that in terms of management, I think is really important to have. So really trying to I overcame it by leadership and management courses that I think definitely help bridge that gap.


Scott D Clary  1:02:34

Good. Okay. One person that was really impactful in your life, who was it? What did they teach you?


Kris Ruby  1:02:40

My dad has been very impactful in my life. He’s always been super supportive of, of what I’ve done, although I’m sure he’s not thrilled with all the conservative media that I do, because he is not conservative. He’s on the other side of all of that. But other than that, he’s still supportive. I think what I’ve done as far as what did He chased me, he said, Never be afraid of big numbers than that. His background, of course, was in finance. And I think that was a really great lesson for me to understand, right? I think a lot of creatives, we get scared to say, I can do this, but if to do the job you want may mean adding a few, you know, extra zeros to it, or making like really specking it out or scoping it properly. And so that that advice served me well throughout my career.


Scott D Clary  1:03:21

Very good. If you could tell your 20 year old self one thing, what would that be?


Kris Ruby  1:03:29

It’s hard. If I could tell my I’m really thinking about this. I mean, I think as a, as a woman in business, it’s, it’s hard, right? We focus all of our tongue goes to our company and our business. And sometimes like the years can sort of just go by so fast. And so if you, if you’re thinking about something like a family or settling down, or marriage or any of those things, it’s important to me be like, just keep that in the back of your mind, as opposed to thinking like, oh, I can I have tomorrow or have another day or another year. So I think thinking about that is probably important to do as a woman.


Scott D Clary  1:04:09

And if you could recommend a book or podcast or some some source, people should go and check out what would it be?


Kris Ruby  1:04:16

Hmm, let me think about this. There is a book that I would recommend, and I can’t think of the name right now. So maybe we’ll cut this question, and I’ll think about it for you. I’m sorry that I can’t think of the name right now. And that’s gonna kill me. But


Scott D Clary  1:04:29

okay, well, whatever that book is, I’ll put it in the show notes. You think about it, and come back to me. Okay. And last question, then. Oh,


Kris Ruby  1:04:37

I thought of it. Oh, okay. But okay. So I’m going to start this over. The book that I’d recommend is called win without pitching. I think it’s a really great, I believe it’s by Blair ends and it’s a really great resource for any creative.


Scott D Clary  1:04:50

Okay, cool. All right. I’ve never had that one on the show before. I’ve never had that recommendation when without pitching. Okay, I’m writing that down for me for later. Okay. And then last question, what is success? assessment view


Kris Ruby  1:05:04

it’s a hard six for me success means I created something new and put that content into the world. I feel really good as a creator, whether, you know, if I’m creating a piece of content for a client, there’s a client I work with. And they’re an interventional cardiologist. And so we write about Amputation Prevention, and diabetes. And I think that that content, I feel really great that that content when that is out in the world, and that’s created like that is helping someone who is searching for content in that area, to be able to extract that thought, leadership knowledge from that doctor and use my, you know, creativity or PR skills or content marketing skills, and then put that out and publish that I felt really good about that. So for me, success is feeling like I have used my skills to help people in some way and to create something that will last for a long time. beyond me.


Scott D Clary  1:05:59

It’s a pretty damn good answer. That’s a good answer. That’s all I got.


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