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About The Guest
Julia Boorstin is CNBC’s Senior Media & Tech Correspondent based at the network’s Los Angeles Bureau. She covers media with a special focus on the intersection of media and technology. Boorstin also plays a key role in CNBC’s bi-coastal tech-focused program “TechCheck” (M-F, 11AM-12PM ET/8AM-9AM PT) delivering reporting, analysis, and interviews around streaming, social, and the convergence of media and technology. She joined CNBC in May 2006 as a general assignment reporter and in 2007 moved to Los Angeles to cover media.
In 2013, Boorstin created and launched the CNBC Disruptor 50, an annual list she oversees, highlighting the private companies transforming the economy and challenging companies in established industries. Additionally, she reported a documentary on the future of television for the network, “Stay Tuned…The Future of TV.” She also helped launch CNBC’s ‘Closing the Gap’ initiative covering the people and companies closing gender gaps, and leads CNBC’s coverage of studies on this topic. Her book called, “WHEN WOMEN LEAD: What they achieve, Why they succeed, and How we can learn from them,” is a groundbreaking, deeply reported work from CNBC’s Julia Boorstin that reveals the key commonalities and characteristics that help top female leaders thrive as they innovate, grow businesses, and navigate crises—an essential resource for anyone in the workplace.
Boorstin joined CNBC from Fortune magazine where she was a business writer and reporter since 2000. During that time, she was also a contributor to “Street Life,” a live market wrap-up segment on CNN Headline News.
In 2003, 2004, and 2006, The Journalist and Financial Reporting newsletter named Boorstin to the “TJFR 30 under 30” list of the most promising business journalists under 30 years old. She has also worked for the State Department’s delegation to the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development and for Vice President Gore’s domestic policy office.
- 00:00 — Intro
- 03:44 — Julia Boorstin’s career, upbringing, and other factors which affected and motivated her to write her book
- 08:55 — Where are we standing today in terms of equity?
- 12:13 — Unpacking why some women received VC funding and others don’t
- 17:45 — Julia Boorstin’s thoughts on having more female-founded VC funds
- 19:13 — How to be successful raising capital
- 22:03 — Interesting success stories that Julia has covered over her career
- 27:45 — Leadership lessons and strategies
- 35:22 — Community building & examples from Julia’s book
- 40:00 — How do we move towards equity within the next few years?
- 50:34 — Where can people connect with Julia Boorstin?
- 51:58 — The biggest challenge Julia has overcome in her personal life
- 53:23 — What keeps Julia Boorstin up at night?
- 53:55 — The most impactful person in Julia Boorstin’s life
- 55:15 — Julia Boorstin’s book or podcast recommendations
- 56:04 — What would Julia Boorstin tell her 20-year-old self?
- 57:00 — What does success mean to Julia Boorstin?
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What is the Success Story Podcast?
On this podcast, you’ll find interviews, Q&A, keynote presentations & conversations on sales, marketing, business, startups, and entrepreneurship.
The podcast is hosted by entrepreneur, business executive, author, educator & speaker, Scott D. Clary.
Scott will discuss some of the lessons he’s learned over his own career, as well as have candid interviews with execs, celebrities, notable figures, and politicians. All who have achieved success through both wins and losses, to learn more about their life, their ideas, and insights.
He sits down with leaders and mentors and unpacks their stories to help pass those lessons on to others through both experiences and tactical strategies for business professionals, entrepreneurs, and everyone in between.
Host of the Success Story Podcast: https://www.successstorypodcast.com
CEO/Founder of OnMi Patch: https://newsletter.scottdclary.com/
Write a Daily Business Newsletter to 40,000 People: https://newsletter.scottdclary.com/
Contact: Scott D. Clary MBA |416-522-5622 | firstname.lastname@example.org
Machine Generated Transcript
women, people, company, pandemic, business, book, stories, called, female founders, data, talking, world, HubSpot, started, money, invest, organizations, founder, podcast, thought
Scott D Clary, Julia Boorstin
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Scott D Clary 00:26
Welcome to success story, the most useful podcast in the world. I’m your host Scott D. Clary. The success story podcast is part of the HubSpot Podcast Network. The HubSpot Podcast Network has other great podcasts like marketing made simple hosted by Dr. JJ Peterson. Marketing made simple brings you practical tips to make your marketing easy, and more importantly, make it work. Now if any of these topics sound interesting to you, you’re going to love his show, how to write and deliver captivating speeches, how to market yourself into a new job, how design can help and potentially hurt your revenue and how to create a social media ad strategy that works. If these topics hit home and they’re things that you want to learn about. Go listen to marketing made simple wherever you get your podcasts. Today, my guest is Julia Boorstin now Julia is CNBC, senior media and tech correspondent and has been an honor reporter for the network’s in 2006. She also played a central role on CNBC is bicoastal tech focused program, tech check delivering reporting, analysis and CEO interviews with a focus on social media and the intersection of media and technology. In 2013, she created and launched the CNBC disruptor 50. An annual list she oversees highlighting private companies transforming the economy and challenging companies in established industries. She also helped launch the network’s Closing the Gap initiative covering the people and companies closing gender and diversity gaps. A graduate of Princeton University, she has been a reporter for Fortune Magazine, as well as a contributor to CNN and CNN Headline News. She also worked for vice president Gore’s domestic policy office, she lives in Los Angeles with her husband and two sons. So we spoke about the current state and the future state of equity in organizations. We spoke about groundbreaking and deeply reported narrative work incorporating interviews with leaders from companies such as Bumble, hello, sunshine, and the biometrics company clear. She conducted all these interviews for books she wrote, we spoke about the counterintuitive approaches of women running some of the world’s most innovative and successful companies, and what we can learn from them. And then we finally closed with how one VC firm, eliminated bias through extreme self awareness, and the model that they deployed and the learnings that we can take from how they did it, right.
Julia Boorstin 03:02
I feel really lucky, I had amazingly supportive mentors. And there was one day when I was a young reporter at Fortune magazine, I actually I remember, I was 22 years old. And I got a phone call from CNN. And they asked me to come on live television that day, and I was freaked out. I never been on live TV before I was 22 years old. I didn’t know anything. And they asked me to go on live TV to talk about a story I’d written for Fortune Magazine. And they get this all the time. This is sort of how it worked. And I was like, I can’t do that. They’re gonna ask me other questions about the stock market. And I had this mentor who went on to become editor in chief of Fortune Magazine. And he said to me, just do it. You don’t know how to do something until you do it. You can’t get practice it, live it live television. Unless you do it. You just have to say yes, if you fail, what’s the worst that can happen? And I just remember hearing in the back of my head, what’s the worst that could happen? I was like, Oh, maybe I embarrass myself. But like, that’s not too bad. What’s the most embarrassing thing I could say? So So I did it. And I feel like that set me off on a on a path that saying yes to things I was scared of which had turned out to be a great advantage.
Scott D Clary 04:09
That is a great advantage. Now, talk to me. So that was that was one mentor that pushed you in that direction. But I feel like this book speaks. The reason why you wanted to write this book probably has to do with helping people come over, overcome a lot of impostor syndrome. So that was one point that sort of set you down that path. But walk me through your career, walk me through your upbringing, walk me through some of the guidance support you had way before this mentor. And then also some of the things that maybe you experienced in your career that were obviously compelling enough. That got you to write a book about all the different struggles that women face in business, because if you had an incredibly easy career with no problems whatsoever, I actually highly doubt that you would have been passionate enough about this topic to write an entire book on it how
Julia Boorstin 05:00
Nobody has an easy career, everyone has ups and downs, there is no one who gets started on a career path and has a linear path, everyone has to have challenges otherwise, they never have anything to overcome. So I would say, everyone’s everyone’s path has had some bumps along the way. So for me, I was so privileged, I grew up in Los Angeles with a hugely supportive family, but particularly when it came to this topic, my mom had sort of been, you know, she’d gone to an a women’s college, and then she went to Berkeley, and she had sort of she and my dad, you know, you know, participate in the civil rights movement, and, and march for women’s rights, and all these different things. And from their perspective, there was a lot of progress that had been made, but they believed that there would be this steady march of progress. And by the time I was in the workforce, things would be equal. And I would always get this encouragement from my parents, and particularly my mom to just think about what I wanted to do when I grew up. And don’t worry, you could do whatever you want. By the time you grow up, everything will be different. By the time you grew up, things will be so different from when I was growing up. And my mom would tell these stories about how she always felt her two choices for careers where if she even had a career growing up in the 50s, she was told her career choices were teacher or nurse. And that was it. And she didn’t have any other options, she was going to get married, and if she had a job was gonna be one of those two things. And so she said, You could do whatever you want, you are not going to be constrained by those things, you’ll be a CEO, you’ll be a senator, you’ll be a rocket scientist. She had very grand plans. But mostly, she didn’t want me to feel constrained by gender roles. And she didn’t want me to feel constrained by the fact that women just did not hold those rules in big numbers. So I felt very optimistic about the world moving towards a more equitable place. And I went off to college, and I worked on the newspaper, and I saw equity, there’s equity in my classrooms, there was equity on the newspaper and on the all the different student organizations around campus. And I was very lucky to get a job at Fortune Magazine, it was 2000, I was the last person hired before the economic downturn. And I was, you know, the market then crashed, and I showed up at work the first day, and I was getting this informal orientation by one of the women who worked there. And she said something to me that I will never forget. And she said, Oh, don’t worry, you know, we went through the regular orientation stuff. This is how you pitch a story. This is how you fill out an expense report. This is how the meeting schedule works. This is where you should be tomorrow morning. And she said oh, and the good news is as I was leaving the door, she said, Oh, the good news is there was just a sexual harassment lawsuit. So everyone will be on the best behavior. And I was like, What are you talking about? Everyone will be on their best behavior, a sec because of the lawsuit, lawsuit, that’s a good thing. And I just remember thinking, Oh, my God, what is happening here, this is the real world, my mom was wrong, I was wrong to believe my mom and the world has is so far from equal, there’s so many challenges for women, it’s good news, for me as a 21 year old, straight out of college, that there was a sexual harassment suit, because people are gonna be better behaved than like, I don’t even know what I’m talking about. So I had a sort of reckoning, that maybe the world was not going to be as equitable as I had hoped. And I also saw in the business world at Fortune Magazine, at the time, the management was very male dominated, it is not the case. Now. Now, there’s a female editor in chief who was named to that role while I was writing this book, but you know, there were plenty of women, it just that the higher you got up the ladder, the fewer women there were, and that is very much the case, in business as a whole. And in 2000, that was the case on Wall Street, that was the case, all across corporate America, there are plenty of women, and there, but there’s more gender equity at the bottom of the rungs. And the higher up you get, women just don’t make it to the very top of the ladder, or they do in smaller numbers. So like, take it now, women are about eight and a half percent of CEOs of the Fortune 500 That is an all time high, and we’re talking about eight and a half percent. So there has been progress. But I think it was a real wake up call for me to realize like, okay, there are challenges, some of its going to be structural, some it’s going to be like cultural things like maybe sexual harassment is just like not something people think about are mine that much. And I have to figure out how to live in this world and be successful here.
Scott D Clary 09:18
So if we’re talking about 2022, obviously, still a lot of issues, and that eight and a half percent of the Fortune 500 that we’re talking about still, like fortune 500. We’re not, I guess, looking at say like even like the fortune 1000 or companies that are massive that aren’t included on the fortune 500 globally, and we’re living in a way we would consider to be a relatively progressive part of the world, all things considered. So where are we at in terms of equity? So what is the reality for somebody going into the workforce now and then trying to move up? What are the problems and the struggles that perhaps We think are gone, but are still there. What what do we have to deal with?
Julia Boorstin 10:04
So what’s interesting is that, you know, women actually graduated from college in higher numbers than men do women go to more grad school than men? Do, I think the numbers are pretty close to equal when it comes to business. Well, these numbers change all the time. But there’s no there. It’s not like men are getting more education than women do. But there have been a lot of studies trying to figure out why women may start in jobs, the same numbers as men, but don’t end up at the top of companies in the same numbers as men. And one of the key theories, and this was something that was sort of articulated by leanin McKinsey study is this idea of a broken rung, women get promoted at the lower levels. But then there’s a sort of a leap to more of a management level, where often women just don’t get those promotions. And interestingly, it doesn’t necessarily seem to have anything to do with performance, it can have to do with how much women are pushing for promotions, or maybe they are sort of inadvertently penalized for taking time off from work for, you know, for maternity leave, etc. So there’s so many different reasons. But one thing that I really focus on in this book is I look at the tech industry in particular, because the tech industry has more of a gap in in venture capital funding, than in any other industry, you’ll see in terms of representation. So we all know that tech companies are incredibly powerful, they impact the way we live our lives, the way we travel with companies like Uber or the way we, you know, order every product or a house with Amazon, like there’s no company. There. Tech companies have massive influence over everything. And tech companies are funded by venture capital, whether it’s Facebook, or Airbnb, all these companies, Google, all these companies exist, because venture capital, fuel them, and allow them to grow massively, while they were still losing money. So I wanted to look at this sector, because this is the sector with the craziest gender gap. Women on average female founders have gotten 3% or less of all venture capital funding in the past 10 years. So if you look at billions of dollars in venture capital, like $30 billion dollars last year, 3% of the actually 2021, it was 2% 3% or so of that money goes to companies and female founders.
Scott D Clary 12:14
It’s really insane. So that’s the reason why
Julia Boorstin 12:18
it doesn’t really make sense. So I really want to focus on that world, just because the gap was so crazy, that I wanted to understand a why that was happening and be how the women who had defied the odds and had managed to get that tiny piece of venture capital funding, how they had done it, I wanted to know their secrets. These I thought these women are by definition exceptional. And I really want to learn from them.
Scott D Clary 12:40
So so we’ll unpack why some women did receive VC funding, but that’s a really interesting stat. So I would have actually assumed that and yeah, of course, you think of tech is like, oh, there’s, you know, the tech Bros and whatnot. And there’s this like, sort of like a negative connotation with the tech bro SF startup. But the numbers that tech is worse than some other legacy industries is absolutely insane. So if 3% of is 3% of female founders are getting VC money, it’s very obvious why there’s not a
Julia Boorstin 13:10
lot, it’s actually slightly more complicated. 3% of VC dollars, go to companies with female founders. But it’s 6% of deals. And what’s interesting is because you know, each deal is like the check that’s written, yeah, what that means is that women’s checks are smaller than the checks that men are getting, if they’re getting 6% of deals, and only 3% of dollars, it means the checks are on average, smaller.
Scott D Clary 13:30
So why is that that’s a huge problem to solve for. Right? That’s
Julia Boorstin 13:32
another problem, too. So there’s so much in here. And I just want to be clear, I’m not pointing fingers at anyone, I think what’s really interesting about this is I don’t think there’s one group one person No, no one group or organizations to blame for any of this. This is layers upon layers of structural, historical societal patterns that have established this system. And it’s very hard to break them. What I was most interested in impressed to learn in my research is just this concept of pattern matching is hugely powerful. pattern matching is this idea that if you’re a VC, and you want to make an investment in a founder, your instinct and the data would indicate that you should invest in someone who matches a pattern, you should invest in someone whose company is similar to another company founded, maybe you have a habit or a pattern of investing and people who were engineers at an Ivy League school, and then founded an enterprise software company, which they sold. And now you want to invest in these second time founders. If you’re looking at that subset of founder, you’re going to be looking mostly at men. So it becomes this feedback loop where people just invest in more and more of the same types of people. Part of it is that if you’re a venture investor, you’re making some big bets and you want to control every factor you can control. So if someone reminds you it was Mark Zuckerberg that could influence you. There’s some crazy quotes in my book, saying I’ll invest in anyone who reminds me of Mark Zuckerberg, but I I think that it’s just this instinct to go with the familiar. And also, when you’re an investor, you’re going to be spending a lot of time with these companies you’re writing big checks to. And so you want to make sure this is someone you like, and don’t mind spending hours upon hours with. So there’s also this instinctive invest in people who feel like your friends, maybe they went to your same fraternity, you know, for same college, we’re in your same fraternity. So I think a lot of that is is sort of its pattern matching, which is a symptom of unconscious bias. And the more we could just recognize it, the more there’s a huge opportunity to break the pattern. And there’s financial opportunity. And in breaking the pattern, there’s a VC I interviewed for the book named Josh Coleman from First Round Capital, it’s a fund in Philadelphia, he had a very successful fund. And after 10 years, he said, Let’s do a study, and let’s find out like what has been working with our companies, they invest in early stage companies, and early stage is when there’s the most opportunity for bias because you’re not investing in a company based on a five year track record, you’re investing in a company based on the idea and the founder. So he went back and looked at the results of his investments over the years, he found that the female founded investments, which weren’t, there weren’t very many of them, they tended to perform better. And he thought this is crazy. If the female founders, their companies are doing better, why aren’t we investing in more of them. So he sort of took a step back and realized that there were systems they could put in place to make sure they weren’t just, you know, investing in the in the obvious thing based on the pattern. So they before used to only have investors who had had a successful company that they had invested in that limited the pool, and they said, why do we only have to hire people we’ve invested in their company, let’s, you know, let’s broaden the pool. So they started hiring different kinds of investors, more women, and women are twice as likely to invest in a female founded startup than men are. So they all of a sudden got this different pool of companies who are coming to them with their ideas, because they diversified who their who their venture partners who are basically and then interestingly, they put these systems in place in their meetings, to make sure that they’re getting rid of bias, they’d hear a pitch, and then instead of just opening, you know, having that founder leave, and they’d open the floor for conversation, this is something that happens in meetings, no matter what type of company are in, they would have your pitch, like you could hear a presentation, but they’d have everyone write down what they thought about the company, then they’d have a conversation. That way, you didn’t have one very loud, charismatic person, railroad everyone else into listening to their opinion. And then everyone would be like, Okay, fine, this guy’s loud, we should do what he wants to do. This way, you can get people who are maybe more introverted, maybe maybe more women who are less likely to want to go out on a limb in a male dominated room. And you could just let everyone share their opinion, without, you know, without it having to be a public performance. And he found that the outcomes of implementing the system were really, really powerful. So I think there’s so much upside to recognizing and stripping out the pattern matching the unconscious bias.
Scott D Clary 18:11
So it’s gonna take these VC firms and incredible amount of self awareness to do what this one VC did, which is absolutely incredible. I’m curious about your thoughts. And I know, it’s not going to be an absolute answer that we can solve for right now. But do you think it would be easier if we teach over some of the things the awareness that we’re gonna talk about in a second about female founders that have done exceptional things and sort of broadcast that message out to the world? Or alternatively, second potential strategy? If we tried to get more women founded, female founded VC funds that would hopefully start off on the right foot? What do you think is more realistic?
Julia Boorstin 18:51
I think you need all of the above. Ultimately, the venture capital industry is very large and very entrenched. They get money from all sorts of different sources. The only way you’re really going to see massive change in terms of who’s getting funding is if you have some of the biggest funds, who have billions and billions of dollars, if you get them to identify the value, the financial value, this is not about helping the world this is about they will make more money, if they invest in a more diverse set of companies. I think once you have that piece, that’s when you’re going to see more systemic change. Otherwise, it just, you know, plenty women are set starting funds, and that’s great. But that alone is not going to drive meaningful change to the numbers. If you’re talking about coming from a place where women founders have never done more than 3% of VC dollars in any given year.
Scott D Clary 19:39
That’s it’s still it’s a sad but incredible stat. So let’s let’s break down that 3% I mean, that’s what you did, right? You broke out you went into the 3%. And you found out why why these people got the money. What was the what was the differentiator between all the other women founders that weren’t successful? And then it’s also talking about the results because there was Calls are also incredible. I know that some of the people that you interviewed, they’re like on my list of people that like, I definitely want to interview like, they’re like fucking badass like, they’re awesome. Yeah. So let’s let’s first, we can take it whichever way you want to talk about the results first, or you want to talk about why these people were successful in raising capital in the first place. Well,
Julia Boorstin 20:19
what do you mean by the results?
Scott D Clary 20:20
You mean, like the incredible companies they built and why there’s a financial incentive to diversify your portfolio based on some of the people that you spoke?
Julia Boorstin 20:28
I’m Chris Long, the host of American prodigies becoming great. Join me each week, as I take you inside some of the most fascinating NFL stories, new episodes every Thursday. Listen in wherever you get your podcasts presented by win bet vote to. Yeah, I mean, look, there’s a lot of powerful data. I mean, I should back up and say, I started this book because I was so impressed by the female founders, I was meeting and I thought they’re approaching different from this kind of stereotype of what leaders are supposed to look like and be like, and lead, like, and I kept on coming back to this idea that leadership doesn’t have to just be one thing. This this archetype of male aggressive top down hierarchical management, like that is really not the way things work. Certainly not anymore. And we’re seeing women lead in so many different ways. And I think it’s really empowering to realize like all of these different things work, maybe I have a piece of that and myself, maybe there’s something there that I can I can try to grow in myself. And it’s okay that I don’t look like that like that, bro. And you know, the tech bros, you put it or the guy in the suit. That’s our, that’s our stereotype. So I first started off wanting to tell these amazing stories, because you said you guys have to read my book, it’s so much fun, these stories are so surprising and inspiring. But behind the stories, I thought each of these stories is driven by different characteristics, what this woman is doing, trying to reform the healthcare system, what this woman is doing, trying to navigate the pandemic at the peak of the crisis with a company that by all other measures should have gone out of business and instead has gone on to magnet, you know, magnificent heights, what they’re doing is a leadership trait or strategy that we can break out and I can find research on so I started with the stories and then I just started reading so many academic studies, but management and leadership and I, I was really impressed by these studies. It’s amazing what business school professors have been up to, but also to learn that some of these traits, you know, that that maybe we don’t associate with leadership or business success are actually hugely valuable. And we should just throw out the stereotypes of what a leader looks like, because it has nothing to do with what in reality actually works.
Scott D Clary 22:44
100% Okay, so let’s, so let’s do some case studies. Let’s, let’s walk through some of the people that you covered, like, what they accomplished, what the trade is, why it was successful, because I want people to take from this episode away, like different ways that they can go to their team tomorrow or their business tomorrow, and maybe look at leadership in a slightly different context and also tell some stories of some incredible people. So, I mean, you’ve interviewed everyone from if I’m not mistaken, like, Whitney Wolfe herd is like, awesome. She’s super super. Like, she’s she’s amazing. I mean, you have Jennifer Harmon. Yeah, yes, exactly. Founder Bumble which IPO that was an incredible IPO. You have Carolyn Childers, Lindsey Kaplan? Do you have? Yeah, whoever Who do you want to go into and you can like sort of break down? A couple stories of people that you spoke to?
Julia Boorstin 23:36
Well, you know, maybe I should tell the story of clear people are probably familiar with clearer and clearer is the biometrics company that helps people it was known originally for helping people get through the airport quickly, right, you’d use clear you could get through security faster, you’d board your flight. When you think about the companies that should have gone out of business in the early days of the pandemic, when travel declined by 90% clears pretty high up there, right? All of their revenue was contingent on airplane travel, and it all came to a screeching halt. The fact that the CEO of that company, Karen Seidman, Becker, managed to use the pandemic as a crazy growth opportunity. And in the pandemic, took her company public. And now as it has a diversified company, to me is an example of remarkable management and crisis. And I just was blown away by her story, and it all goes back to her worldview. She I so when I was so curious to learn how she did this, because I had interviewed her for CNBC for CNBC disruptor 50 list, back when clear is a kind of a straightforward biometrics company for airplane travel. And I said, like, how did you? How did you prepare? Or how did you end up being prepared for the pandemic because the story of what happened in the pandemic is they developed this technology that maybe many of your listeners have used called Health paths. So if you want to go into many office buildings, if you want to go to a conference you have To download health paths and links here at originally would link to your COVID test results now links to your vaccination card. And it basically acts as your vaccine or your health passport to get around the world. They also have health travel stuff. So I said how did you how did you end up in a position where a your travel business didn’t crush you? And B, you now have this health care business? Where did that even come from? And she said, she is sort of the queen of over preparedness. She always thought of life as wanting to go through with belts a belt and suspenders like double preparedness. And, you know, she, she told us this funny story now. I mean, now it’s funny, but how at the beginning of the pandemic, she was on an airplane on a train ride, she got a call from someone saying this pin. This is you know, as February they said New York is going to shut down. This is going to be crazy. You got to prepare and everyone rounder was like, oh, it’s February, it’s gonna be fine. You know, no one really could tell you how bad it was going to be. But she was like ordering groceries, packing her freezer, like preparing, like, you know, backup plans. Like she’s always been a planner. But her key characteristic is an adaptability quotient. We talked about IQ we talked about we talked about EQ, a lot of EQ is the new thing. But AQ adaptability quotient is really something that people should be focused on. There’s this instinct and a lot of occasions to once you make a plan, you stick with it, you’ve invested in a plan, everyone’s agreed on the plan, maybe you’ve put a lot of money into a plan and changing course would be expensive and a pain and nobody wants to figure out what the new plan is going to be. Her story told me that you need to be willing to pivot instantaneously and not look back. I think this was the case with a lot of companies that succeeded during the pandemic. But what’s interesting about Claire’s They not only kept their travel business alive, but they built this whole other health business. So she had had this sort of seedlings of this idea about creating a health passport and because they’d already been through this FDA process, the day that she started worrying about the you know, COVID becoming a pandemic are becoming deemed a pandemic, they started building out health technology. And in April of 2020, well before a vaccine was even conceived of, they started thinking about linking to vaccine vaccine status. So to her whole thing is like plan way far ahead and then be willing to pivot pivot pivot pivot, they offered their tools to the NHL and NFL boat bubbles. They figured out how to use it to get people in and out of office buildings. But she her whole thing was just don’t get stuck in any one plan. If you’re already prepared and then ready to pivot, you can only create newer and newer opportunities. And I think it was just amazing to see the way she she grew her business. In the meantime,
Scott D Clary 27:48
I just want to take a second to thank the sponsor of today’s episode HubSpot. Now, they don’t call it the sales destination. It’s a sales journey. And on that journey, you want the best tools and support to keep you and your customers connected every step of the way. HubSpot is an all in one CRM platform that is impossible to outgrow and ridiculously easy to use, meaning you never have to worry about it slowing you down. That’s because HubSpot is purpose built for real salespeople with real customers and real problems to solve with customizable hubs and tools that you can add and subtract as you grow. And an interface it’s just as easy to use if you’re a team of one or 1000 HubSpot is built for you and your customers to grow together. Wherever the journey takes you learn how HubSpot can help your business grow email@example.com I’m gonna say like that that adaptability quotient. I love that. Because I think that I’ve seen a lot of business leaders that you’re right, they don’t pivot. And that’s that’s how they die. They it’s like my way or the highway. I’m not deviating. I’m sure this will work out eventually I’m gonna burn through cash and people and my own energy until I figure it out. And there’s times when sometimes that’ll work. But it’s not the smartest way to do business. And it’s definitely not the most cost effective way to do business by any means. So that adaptability quotient is incredibly important. And that’s something that she had, intuitively she was born with that raised was that that’s how she’s probably always been. How would you suggest a leader this listen to this? They look at that example. They’re like, wow, my business is in a less precarious industry. And we should have survived COVID We didn’t and, and this, this leader was able to keep the business afloat through COVID, even though had to do with air travel. Okay, I want to I want to sort of upskill myself with adaptability quotient. I don’t I don’t know where I’d even start. So well, I
Julia Boorstin 29:35
yeah, I think there are a couple of things. And one is the power of data. And we talk about data all the time, all the time. Every company in this book, every company in the world benefits from reading the data. You don’t want to be there. And there are some studies in the books book about how women tend to make decisions more based on data and less based on ego and instinct and this idea that if you really are relying on the data, and it’s not by your ego, then you’re not going to be distracted by, you’re not going to be distracted by like your feelings about the plan you made, you’re gonna be like, well, this is what the data says we have to do. And I think focusing on the data can help eliminate the ego and all the complications that can come come from that. So I think that’s part of it. But I also think there’s something I heard a lot about in the book. And I think this comes back to humility also. And this is talking to the people on the ground. You know, Karen Seidman, Becker was locked at her apartment in New York, when she was trying to make some of these tough decisions. But she knew that by talking to people who were like maybe starting to work on the health care, the health paths, or maybe talking to some companies who might need health paths to get employees in and out. It’s by doing sort of the broadest information gathering possible and talking to the people closest to the problem. That’s where you’re gonna get the best insights. There were some other women I profiled in my chapter on on managing and crisis, including Claire Babineaux Fontenot, who runs Feeding America, and also Michelle Nunn, who runs care USA, which actually runs the care programs in 69 countries around the world. They had always offered aid all around the world. And she had this amazing moment where they have the pandemic, they’re operating in 69 countries, everything’s chaos, they come up with a plan that involves like shipping, soap and hand sanitizer, and they’re doing the things that the CDC recommends, and they feel like they’re doing everything, right. And then they got this message from women on the ground. We can’t eat soap, we don’t want hand sanitizer, we need you to help us figure out a way to make money when we can’t leave our homes. And so there was this revelation that if she had just gone by the book, she would have let all of these people down all around the world. But by going into these different groups that they had helped organize these lending groups, they can find on actually what people want it because it’s one thing to have the CEO say, I know, I know what we should do. And it’s another thing to say, Okay, let’s go talk to people. And let’s actually let’s gather the data back to the data because maybe your idea is totally wrong. And in a crazy, unprecedented situation, like the pandemic or by the way, like a new kind of economic downturn, new kind of inflation. Every situation is different. And there’s and you will only benefit by being humble as you as you gather information.
Scott D Clary 32:21
It’s ultimately like what I what I’m sort of seeing as you go through these different stories, it’s an exercise in like empathy, removing any sort of ego from business decisions operating based off data. And like you said, like EQ, IQ, AQ, like, like, just like being a better person when it comes to conducting business. But it’s not like you it’s not like you’re aren’t being less effective. It’s not like you’re doing things for yes, of course, you want to you want to listen to your customers, if your customers are people around the world that don’t have money to buy food for the families, that’s the person that you have to listen to. If your customers aren’t, well, anyone really, if you’re not listening to them, and you’re and you’re bullheaded in your strategy, you’re gonna be ineffective, right?
Julia Boorstin 33:05
There’s a strategy called servant leadership. And this is something that male CEOs have talked about doing. Howard Schultz, the founder of Starbucks, you know, Fred Smith, the founder of FedEx, these are guys who have talked about how they use servant leadership and what servant leadership is defined as is really putting your customers and your employees first thinking about what is going to be best for these groups of people. And it’s I mean, there have been books written on it, this whole management theory, but it’s something that’s really about sort of diminishing the leaders role in the organization, because they’re trying to elevate the needs and the and the impact of all these other people. And there is, and there’s a woman I interview in the book named Shivani, Sariah. And she’s the CEO of a company called Tala, and she leads with servant leadership, Tala is a micro lending organization that lends money in a couple of countries in emerging markets. So what’s interesting is she was doing she came up with this idea when she was in India and some and some countries in Africa doing research. And she noticed that so many people in these in these communities could not borrow money, there was no way for her for them to borrow money from the bank. They didn’t have any credit history, they had small businesses, but no credit history. So she thought this is a crazy opportunity. So she would lend them money just personally. And everyone always paid her back. So she created this system at Tala. And this is a for profit business at Tala, where they lend money based on your cell phone data. So they can tell based on your cell phone, if you’re going to be able to repay a loan, they’re wrong sometimes. But the only penalty if you don’t repay the loan is that you don’t get to borrow money again. But the ability to borrow money is so valuable in these markets because people don’t have access to micro loans otherwise, but what she said to me was so powerful. She said that radical trust is the way she wants to lead because your customers are not going to trust you unless you trust them entirely. So she created this system where she said we’re gonna lend you money within five minutes. on your cell phone, you’ll be able to get money for your vegetable business or your laundry business that you’re doing. Your only technology is your is your cell phone, but we will trust you entirely. And then they trust her. And she saw this when she was starting to just lend money one on one. But she said, There’s something so valuable about that, because your customers become so passionate about your relationship, and they, they want to work with you, because you have given them that radical trust. And look, it doesn’t always make sense. But it’s a really interesting concept of like what can be gained, if you have radical trust with your with your customers, and also your employees.
Scott D Clary 35:36
It’s a more humanistic approach to business for sure. Because if we think about like, the way we do business in the US, at least, I mean, how many checks and balances and due diligence and underwriting and contracts before $1 is exchanged?
Julia Boorstin 35:50
If you look at what and maybe one business opportunity is missed, I mean, if she has data and algorithms to tell it, people are gonna pay her back. And by the way, they do pay her back when 90% of the time she gets her for Tala gets paid back. That’s amazing. So pretty amazing data about the financial upside there.
Scott D Clary 36:05
Okay, the other the other thing I wanted to tap into, which I thought was incredibly interesting is community building. So you brought two examples forward in the book that I thought we could touch on. So you have chief run by by Carolyn chowders. And Lindsey Kaplan, then you also have the crew by Tiffany doofus if I’m pronouncing that correctly. So both of those leverage community, were those pandemic initiatives? Or were those pre pandemic or what else
Julia Boorstin 36:33
did they both existed before the pandemic. Um, so both of these are organizations designed to help professional women in their work lives. This is not a social group. This is a professional network. And what’s interesting is all of this data finds that women often feel a little uncomfortable, asking other people for professional help. They’re helping to give the help. But they’re not socialized to think that asking friends for favors professional favors is something that you’re supposed to do. It feels kind of yucky. Literally, the word yaki was used in some of these studies. But men feel very comfortable saying, Hey, buddy, can you help me out with a work thing I need? I need a favor, or can you introduce me to this person, but there isn’t as much of a sort of socialized idea that women should be asking each other for professional introductions or favors. So these two organizations eliminate that social anxiety, they say you’re coming together to get to know each other and to offer each other professional help and to be each other’s business network. There’s fascinating data showing that people who have a tight knit but diverse network of people, people who don’t necessarily work in their own company or in their own industry, but a diverse network of people, those are the people who are most successful in business because they could get diverse ideas, they could pull in other things from outside their own little, their own little world. So. So what’s interesting is that there’s all this data and chief and the crew both are designed as if they were designed based on all this data. I mean, they weren’t. And a lot of these studies have been done since. But both these organizations gather women in small groups, and they either are coached or they are trained on how to coach each other for professional development. And a lot of that is how to set goals, how to hold yourself accountable, and how to learn how to ask for the right kinds of favors. The data about the power of female networks is so overwhelming. There’s one study which shows that if women are given told about a stereotype that women are say bad at taking math tests, and then they’re asked to take them out test, those women are gonna do less well on the math test. And if they have not been reminded of that stereotype, stereotypes can be really damaging. But if they are put in a small group of other women, and they’re like, Okay, you guys are all here together, we’re going to tell you this stereotype, they’re told the stereotype stereotype had no impact on their results. So there’s something about groups of women that can eliminate the negative power of stereotypes that are bad for women, we talk so much about the negative piece and how how damaging stereotypes and bias are. But I love the idea that just getting together with a group of women, even when you were not close friends with them, maybe professional contacts, I love that that can battle the bad things in the world.
Scott D Clary 39:17
What do you think about like leveraging this model within a company or within a cohort of like a VC investment portfolio? Like this kind,
Julia Boorstin 39:26
that’s why they’re all these groups, you know, within companies. I mean, it’s interesting, because you kind of need every kind of group, right? You need the small group that supports women. And then you also need groups that are men and women, so men and women can support each other. I mean, I firmly believe that women should have male mentors. And the only reason I’ve had so much success is I’ve been lucky to have male mentors along the way, but I do think that you need both things. There are some amazing organizations in Silicon Valley that are designed to help build these networks of women but then also build bridges into the establishment, the power sector pictures of the male dominated groups. One of them is called the hashtag angels. And they are focused on helping get women to invest in startups to help change all those numbers we were talking about earlier, and another that was called to all raise. And this is an amazing nonprofit that helps coach women and helps them grow their companies. And then they practice pitching their startups. And they have this amazing network of successful women in the industry. And then people starting off in the industry, women and people of color, this is really designed to help level the playing field. And that is a perfect example of an organization that does the nurturing of the of the small group environment and then bridges and gives these women access to the venture capital tech establishment.
Scott D Clary 40:44
So we have so there’s, like you mentioned before, there’s so many different, like, there’s so many different issues we have to tackle but also levers that we can pull. Right? So we have
Julia Boorstin 40:53
so many reasons to be optimistic. I’m so optimistic even in these crazy times,
Scott D Clary 40:57
no, no, you should be you 100% should be like, you can see, you can see all the pieces when you see like a VC firm that’s self aware, when you see community groups that remove social stigmas that can impede your performance when you talk about all these founders that have been exceptionally successful, even though they only represent whatever 6% of 3%. Like, there’s obviously a lot of positive points. However, it’s not where it should be in 2022. So how do we move like a little bit quicker? How do we get towards equity? Maybe not in the next 50 years? Right?
Julia Boorstin 41:33
Oh, gosh, I hope isn’t next 50 years? Come on, I hope things speed
Scott D Clary 41:37
- I’m telling I’m being honest, I’m being I’m saying how do we get it moving quicker, right. Like we thought that we further along in 2022.
Julia Boorstin 41:45
I am optimistic that the business world will move towards equity and become more diverse, both in terms of gender and in terms of race. And in terms of ability and in terms of everything because there are so many studies showing that diversity is better for business. It’s it’s better for product development is better for understand your customers. It’s better for for management. I mean, there are all these stories about diverse management teams have better retention, you know, they are more empathetic. So I can go on and on about all the academic studies. But I think that I think that’s why there’s reason to be optimistic. And then there’s just this day to day thing like how are we all supposed to navigate the world, especially if anyone, anyone feels like they’re facing bias or they’re facing stereotypes are there there’s a ceiling of how far people like them have gone in their organization. And I think that’s sort of the day to day like big picture. Yes, we can be optimistic, but we all have to get up and go to work the next day. And when I was writing the chapter on how people are judged more, you know, women and people of color are judged more harshly, I was really depressed by the data. This is the chapter I actually wrote last, because I was so dreading getting dragged down by the negativity of all the ways when women are judged more harshly, women are judged more harshly if they use humor in the workforce, women are more chart judged more harshly, they use anger. If they give feedback to their employees, it’s critical. They’re judged more harshly. I mean, it’s like a laundry list. And I was losing my mind reading this data. But I found a way to make it practical and constructive. And it was this, I realized that if you understand what you’re up against, and you understand what these challenges are, that actually have nothing to do with you and your performance, you can navigate around them. There was a women I a woman I interviewed named I have a dear. And she founded a kid’s tech company called Little bits which she then sold. And she’s Lebanese and she’s a female founder. And when she was raising money, she said she faced the craziest kind of stereotypes and bias. And we’ve got the rudest questions. And she was telling me about some of these comments, she heard. I was like, gosh, how do you not get so discouraged that you gave up?
Scott D Clary 43:57
What did she What did she deal with? Like, give us an example.
Julia Boorstin 43:59
I’m just gonna make rude comments to her. You know, there was some women I interviewed one of them said, she was an Indian immigrant and someone asked her like, when are you going to hire a white male co founder, like, you’re obviously not gonna do this your own like, no one’s gonna ever let you run a company unless you hire a white man to go with you. Like just things that are like that. They just are so discouraged.
Scott D Clary 44:18
That’s really messed up, actually, that somebody would say,
Julia Boorstin 44:21
this happens all the time. It happens all the time. So I just wanted to know, like, I might have given up after that, you know, I don’t know how you keep going. And I got this interesting message from a number of women. And what they said is once you identify that this bias is like not about you, you just like figure out how to go around it. So I have a dear said, I thought of it like remembering to bring a jacket when it’s cold out, you know, it’s going to be cold, you know, you’re going to be uncomfortable. But if you prepare yourself, you put on the armor of a jacket, you just don’t let it bother you. So she said I would go into the meetings. I would listen to the feedback. Some of the comments would be constructive and things that could make my company better and some would be rude and useless. cuz if I could figure out how to separate the ones that were rude and useless, that I could actually learn and get value from the ones that were constructive, and then I wouldn’t let the negative stuff get me down. And I think there’s this idea of once you have, and I put it this way, in this book, like once you can understand the contours of something that’s going to be like an impediment to your growth, you can better figure out your way around it. And so that’s something I like to think about a lot like, okay, you know, maybe I can’t change this thing, like I used to say, like, Oh, my God, I want to hear about if I can’t control it, if I can’t change it, like, it’s not my, I’m not even going to waste my time on it. But actually, it’s good to know what the what the challenges are, maybe it’s good to know, do research and find out if your company, you know, is, you know, what the pay gap is in your company. That’s valuable research, maybe that will empower you to negotiate for more, I just think that again, day to day to data, but also using data to not be brought down by something that’s challenging and to help forge your own path to success.
Scott D Clary 45:58
Another option, that’s sort of more of a career focused option. But if you’re looking to raise money, you may, I guess, research the fund or the firm and see wealthy have invested. I mean,
Julia Boorstin 46:12
it’s, yeah, you can find out what other if you’re, if you haven’t been raising money, what firms have invested in, and then there’s, you can get information from organizations like like all raise or hashtag angels to make sure you’re not giving away too much of your company at a lower, you know, and getting less for it. So it’s interesting, because it shows that women hold fewer shares of startups even that they’ve founded. And that means that they’re not negotiating for as much as like a better deal when they’re getting those investment checks. And part of that is just a lack of transparency. If everyone has more data about how things work, how much people are likely to get paid, then you’re going to have things end up more fair and more equitable. There are some companies that are starting to offer be very clear about what their salary ranges are, and especially for entry level jobs, why let people negotiate and have the people who don’t bother, negotiate get paid much less, they’re saying, this is our starting, you know, this is our starting level, paid check. And this is what it’s going to be. And so later, we’ll, we’ll promote you based on performance, but they create these very clear systems to strip out any bias. And there are some amazing companies such as PayPal, and Salesforce, that it really led the way on using data to eliminate bias from hiring and promotion.
Scott D Clary 47:28
I think that to your point before, like, I also agree that it’s not going to be another 50 years, I think a flywheel has started. And I think that the more data, the more exposure that we have, the better people will be. But it’s about educating them, and also getting people to also help themselves. I think that’s a big piece of it. So it’s not always it’s not always rainbows and unicorns, when you go into these situations, because not we’re not 100%, perfect. Like, like businesses are not 100%. Perfect. So like you said, yeah, you arm yourself,
Julia Boorstin 48:00
yeah, you aren’t yourself, you put on the jacket, figure out what you need to have the jacket that’s gonna protect you from the situation. But you earlier in the conversation you mentioned, you know, these women who are so exceptional, you know, how do they get the 3% of VC dollars. And when I started this project, I was like, you know, what, I’m going to find that these women just came out, came out of the womb, more one thing or another, they came out of the womb more more, you know, empathetic or more insightful or better at managing people. I just thought this is going to be a born trait, right? That I mean, I’m not I’m not a leader, you know that there must be these ingrained traits that some people are more likely to have. And the thing that was true across the board is that none of these traits are born. All of these things are developed. And the most successful leaders are the ones that fail and learn from their success and get better and figure out what traits they want to develop and build on themselves. Karen Seidman, Becker, may have been more likely to be over prepared from the time she was a kid. She talked about how you know her grandfather had escaped the Holocaust. And so she always had this idea of like belts and suspenders always be prepared to maybe that was like a familial thing that was in her head. But she also had all these successes and failures along the way, you know, she, she watched what happened in with 911. And that caught her thinking about airplane safety. She watched what happened with the 2008 2009 financial crash, and she lost a lot of money for her clients then and she learned from it. So there’s amazing data about how people who do sports, in like serious sports in high school and college are more likely to be leaders. That is true of men and women. I’m not an athlete, I was not an athlete in high school or college. But I was really interested in this data. Why is that? Do I have to go into a time machine and have been an athlete in high school to benefit from these from that statistic? And of course, it’s not possible unfortunately. But what I found is there’s actually this thing about athletes that is really wildly portable, and that’s this athletes study They’re failures. When you get off the field, you say what went wrong. There’s this amazing woman in the book named Christine Hunziker. She runs a tech company in the retail space called Castle. And she said, after any work situation, any anything, any negotiation, anything, they do a sort of a post event analysis, they don’t call it post post mortems. She’s like, nobody died. We don’t have to make this negative. Let’s just analyze what happened. And she was a very serious athlete, like in high school, she did all the sports, she she played field hockey in college, and rugby, she was an amazing athlete. And she, she said, you just have to analyze everything. And what she taught me about the value of athletics, is that it’s all about measuring yourself against your own benchmarks, I think about athletics is like people competing against each other. But in business, and in life, that is not what you want to do. You want to say I need as an athlete, and Christine did this, I need to push myself to be my best version of myself, I’m not going to be a good teammate, and we’re not going to win. Let’s I do my part, and figure out where I am now and where I want to go. So none of these women came out as amazing leaders, no one ever does. But it’s about figuring out your starting point and then creating benchmarks to create a path to success. That’s something we can all do. I love that.
Scott D Clary 51:17
Okay, I want to do I want to do a couple rapid fire to close this out. But before before I pivot, final thoughts you want to give over to the audience? And then also, where’s your social, your website? When’s the book coming out all the all the good stuff.
Julia Boorstin 51:32
Final thoughts. I think there’s so many fun stories in here. My book is full of data and practical takeaways. But there are stories in here that I think will make they make me laugh and make me cry a little bit. Just you know, really crazy stories of people overcoming the odds and building amazing businesses. So the stories are fun. And the takeaways are practical. And I think that whether you’re just an employee at a company trying to figure out how to get your next your next promotion or whether you have a startup that you want to get off the ground, we can all find paths to leverage our own skills, what I always call our own superpowers, because we all have them whether we realize it or not. So that’s my that’s my, that’s my pitch for the book and why it’s a fun read. And you can find me online, my website is Julia boston.com. And the book is called when women lead and it’s on Amazon. It’s at your local bookseller, and I recorded version for Audible, which is really you do it yourself, and you can find it everywhere. Did you do it myself? Really hard. Recording an audio book is hard. But really fun.
Scott D Clary 52:33
I’ve heard that it’s very, I’ve never written the book. But I’ve heard it’s exceptionally hard, good for you for doing. It was kind of awesome. All right, let’s do a couple rapid fire. Sure biggest challenge you’ve overcome in your own personal life.
Julia Boorstin 52:51
In my personal life, well, I’m a mom with two boys and a husband. And I think it’s figuring out that’s the same thing as everyone figuring out how to balance, wanting to be everything for everybody and do a great job and be a great mom and be a great wife and not having all the time in the world and figuring out which things to let go. And how to do that without making myself crazy.
Scott D Clary 53:17
How do you how do you do that? How do you balance exceptional career? Great family? What’s the what’s the see it maybe you don’t have a secret? Maybe it’s just trying to figure it out?
Julia Boorstin 53:24
Learning? The constant process, I think, you know, actually, the pandemic really helps sort of strip away all the other stuff, and just figure out what are the things I really want to do. And that’s why I wrote this book during the pandemic, because I thought this is actually something that’s really important. It’s worth waking up at five on a Saturday morning and getting in three hours of writing before my kids wake up. So I think just trying to be intentional about how I spend my time. My husband and I have a joint calendar that we fill out every Sunday. And I think that has really forced me to be like, Okay, what is my family time? And when I’m with my family, can I make sure I’m not distracted on my phone? And what is my book time and what is my TV time and I think just trying to be intentional in the planning helps me stick to that when I’m when I’m in the moment and not get distracted.
Scott D Clary 54:07
Okay, what keeps you up at night?
Julia Boorstin 54:10
Oh, everything global warming. You name it. Um, I think that there’s so much I want to do and I think it is hard to to, to fit it all in. But I worry about all the normal stuff that everyone worries about, you know, global warming and world peace and all
Scott D Clary 54:27
that. Okay, good. If you had to choose one person that I have no control over, which is why, by the way, that’s not a good thing to worry about. But I get it but it’s still not a healthy thing to worry about. You’re gonna stress yourself out. If you had to choose one person, obviously there’s been many but pick one person has been an incredible influence impact mentor in your life. Who was that person? What did they teach you?
Julia Boorstin 54:49
Well, I think I’d have to say my mom because you told me I could do whatever I wanted when I grew up and I think believing that even if it wasn’t necessarily true, was a great a great boost for me. Um, uh, but I feel like I try to learn from every person I interview. And that was one reason I wanted to write this book is because I love asking questions, and you never know what you’re going to learn from someone in people just surprise you. And I like to ask people the question you asked me of sort of Who inspires you? Or do you have a role model? And, and I think now people are, you know, my mom taught me how to ask questions. And I think now people are even more willing than ever to really answer things. Honestly, again, back to the pandemic, I think it kind of stripped out some of the, the, the fancy image that people like to put out there. And when you’re sitting down and talking with someone, you just ask questions, and my mom can go up to anyone and she’ll make friends and elevators, I mean, I always joke, she’ll go into an elevator on the other side, you’ll have a new friend. But she just believes always that if you really ask someone a question, you look them in the eye, they will give you great respect for that. And I think it’s totally true. I love
Scott D Clary 55:54
that. If you had to pick up a book, podcast, Audible, something that’s impacted your life, what would you recommend somebody go check out.
Julia Boorstin 56:03
I’m gonna recommend two books from my friend, Edie Brodsky, she’s an amazing writer. I don’t know if you read her stuff. And she has two books, one is called theraplay. Back to balancing at work life seven, it’s about how couples can divide the invisible labor, not the picking up the kids at school, but all the other stuff that people don’t talk about. And it’s a really amazing book that I find actually very practically helpful. She wrote another book called unicorn space that came out more recently. And that’s about the value of having creative time. And I think it’s so easy to get caught up and family and work and forget that you’re supposed to do things for yourself, and that there’s actual value in finding creative time for yourself. And unicorn space has a ton of data on that. So I recommend that one as well.
Scott D Clary 56:48
Amazing. If you could tell your 20 year old self one thing, what would it be?
Julia Boorstin 56:54
You’re gonna have an amazing career and have more fun than you could have ever imagined.
Scott D Clary 56:57
That’s good. I love that. Okay, last question that what does success mean to you?
Julia Boorstin 57:01
We actually can redo that answer, we
Scott D Clary 57:03
can totally redo that answer. Yeah.
Julia Boorstin 57:06
My 20 year old self, I would say, don’t be afraid of anything. Don’t hesitate. Don’t wait until you’re ready. nobody actually knows what they’re doing. Even the people who think You think they know what they’re doing. In reality, everyone’s all just faking it till they make it and then they figure it out. And so just try stuff and don’t hold back pitch the story, you know, call the CEO, do what it takes to really push yourself out of your comfort zone. It took me a while to feel okay, pushing myself out of my comfort zone. And I wish I’d done it earlier and more often.
Scott D Clary 57:38
Good. That’s a good answer. Both of them are good answers. By the way, they’re both very, very, very valid. Okay, then last question. What does success mean to you?
Julia Boorstin 57:49
Success? I mean, what is like what is success? To me?
Scott D Clary 57:53
Interpret the question, however you want to interpret the question,
Julia Boorstin 57:57
okay. I think Success to me is doing something that I am proud of, and, and is is adds some value to the world. My job as a journalist is so outward facing. Sometimes I feel selfish that I get to do stuff that is so interesting to me. But I feel like success is something that I enjoy. That also has some value. And I feel lucky that I get to have both those things, something that I can tell my kids about and feel good about and also it’s fun for me to do. That’s success. That’s when you feel you feel good and excited when you wake up in the morning.